The Lock and Trigger Mechanism

[TKelly]

After reading a couple of posts within this forum. I was just wondering if something could be done to confirm ones concept about the Lock and Triggering mechanism for Traditional muzzleloaders.

If someone could make a video of the Davis Trigger coupling with the Siler Lock, that would be perfect. I'd love to see an example of the double trigger mechanism as well.

I get the feeling that I could just sit there and watch that video for a very long time.

PS.

Does such a video already exist?

 

[LRB]

Locks and triggers do not acually couple. Both stay as separate units. Only when you pull the trigger do they ever touch. The two are a mix of choice. If you would buy a how to book on building a gun, you would probably get your answers to many or most of your questions. You could buy the video offered by Jim Chambers which takes you step by step in building a Chambers kit with the late great Ron Ehlert. That may take a lot of mystery out of the matter.

 

[TKelly]

Locks and triggers do not acually couple. Both stay as separate units. Only when you pull the trigger do they ever touch. The two are a mix of choice. If you would buy a how to book on building a gun, you would probably get your answers to many or most of your questions. You could buy the video offered by Jim Chambers which takes you step by step in building a Chambers kit with the late great Ron Ehlert. That may take a lot of mystery out of the matter.

Mr. Ellerbe,

I think you've got a point!

A video should break the monotony around here well enough. Since I'm planning on building my own muzzleloader soon, an ML building video is most probably long overdue by now, anyway.

Thanks for the nudge! :wink:

 

[TKelly]

Locks and triggers do not acually couple. Both stay as separate units. Only when you pull the trigger do they ever touch. The two are a mix of choice. If you would buy a how to book on building a gun, you would probably get your answers to many or most of your questions. You could buy the video offered by Jim Chambers which takes you step by step in building a Chambers kit with the late great Ron Ehlert. That may take a lot of mystery out of the matter.

Excuse me for being remiss, Sir. However, locks and triggers do indeed, couple. :hmm:

It may be for just an instant, but they do couple.

Without the trigger, the lock would be useless.

Without the lock, the trigger would be useless.

They have a mutually reciprocative kind of relationship. Sort of reminds me of my relationship with my wife. :hmm:

We don't stay in perpetual contact throughout the day. It may be for just an instant, but we are mutually engaged when the time requires us to be. :rotf:

 

[Stumpkiller]

The trigger "mechanism" in my muzzleloaders is a brass pin through the stock that holds a rectangular bit of flat metal with a arm fashioned in the lower front that forms the trigger. One moving part is hardly what you would call a mechanism. The top of the rectangle presses on the transfer bar of the sear to trip the lock.

 

[jsn]

I believe he was talking about a set trigger system but I could be wrong. Set triggers on the other hand are quite an interesting mechanism not quite as intriguing as a lock but just as importain in the total outcome of a rifle.

 

[TKelly]

That powder and ball would just sit there in the breech, without either the lock or the trigger. The lock and the trigger are an essential part of the firing "mechanism" when coupled.
They must "touch" or "couple" in order to initiate the firing of the muzzleloader.

 

[Zonie]

Actually, I think a video showing a set trigger releasing from a set position and driving its blade into the bottom of the sear arm causing the sear to rotate slightly and disengage its nose from the full cock notch in the tumbler might be interesting.

You could then see the tumbler start to rotate (with the hammer or cock starting to fall) until the half-cock notch approached the nose of the sear where the fly would stand proudly, temporarily covering the half cock notch and forcing the nose of the sear to jump over it.

Now, with nothing between the half cock notch and the lower area of the tumbler to impede the progress of the tumbler, the sear's nose would continue to slide down the outside of the tumbler while the hammer/cock would continue to fall until the nipple was contacted or the stop on the cock (or tumbler) stopped the cock before the flint was crammed into the bottom of the pan.

The only problem with this is the viewer would have to look fast. It only takes a few thousandths of a second for all of this to happen. :grin:

 

[TKelly]

Actually, I think a video showing a set trigger releasing from a set position and driving its blade into the bottom of the sear arm causing the sear to rotate slightly and disengage its nose from the full cock notch in the tumbler might be interesting.

You could then see the tumbler start to rotate (with the hammer or cock starting to fall) until the half-cock notch approached the nose of the sear where the fly would stand proudly, temporarily covering the half cock notch and forcing the nose of the sear to jump over it.

Now, with nothing between the half cock notch and the lower area of the tumbler to impede the progress of the tumbler, the sear's nose would continue to slide down the outside of the tumbler while the hammer/cock would continue to fall until the nipple was contacted or the stop on the cock (or tumbler) stopped the cock before the flint was crammed into the bottom of the pan.

The only problem with this is the viewer would have to look fast. It only takes a few thousandths of a second for all of this to happen. :grin:

WOW, Zonie!

That was a truly enlightening,fascinatinating, and fun read. After reading your post, I now feel totally stoked and primed for the actual video.

I almost feel like I'd prepare a batch of buttered-popcorn and pour a large glass of cola, to serve as a compliment to the much anticipated and highly acclaimed featured video.

I don't know if my wife would appreciate it, but I certainly would attempt to get her to join me in bed, so that we could more thoroughly enjoy it!

Thank You! :applause:

 

[Supercracker]

hmmm. I think I might have a video project to work on.

 

[Bill Hall]

Well, if you had access to a high speed video camera, so it could be viewed in quality slow motion, it could lool really cool.

You could mount the triggers and lock on an open stand or jig, so it could be viewed clearly, and the majority of the video could be of the left (internal) side of the lock, as all the sequences unfold. Then the view could switch to the outside of the lock, a flinter, as the sparks shower down the frizzen and ignite the prime. It would be something to see the chain of events go from point A, to point B, and eventually to the flash in the pan. Bill

 

[Supercracker]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

I'm waiting to get my hands on a new Panasonic GH2 digital camera to make a HDSLR (video only) rig out of.

One of the features it's supposed to have is to be able to do bursts at really high frame rates. Like 500fps IIRC. in HD no less. Which would make for a really good slow mo video.

 

[SAJones]

Guess I'm the wet blanket in this discussion. I fail to see the point. Sear & trigger engagement is a rather simple levering process; set triggers use two levers. I know how they work, in both set & unset, & a video would show nothing most gunbuilders don't already know. I have no problems visualizing how it all works & what amount of wood to remove (actually, not much) to make the system work. Of course, there are several gun building videos, but out in the shop it's easier to take books off the shelf, such as the Gunsmith of Grenville County, to fill in details if one is a bit vague about fit & function. Guess I'm not much of a video buff for how-to-do-its. Rather watch a John Wayne movie.

 

[TKelly]

I think you encapsulated yourself by your own admission, "You fail to see the point".

 

[John Wasmuth]

Why is it that you insist upon complicating things that need not be complicated?