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TC Flint Lock Swap For L&R ?
- Thread starter damron
- Start date
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Some of the remedies posted about equipment are amazing.
Of the dozen of so T/C Hawken Flintlocks I owned and hunted with different caliber and gauge barrels, put over 12,000 shots through them, and never had a physical lock problem, never modified a mainspring by cutting it off, etc.
Found the agate 'flints' to be junk and Tom Fuller 5/8" black english flints did a little better in the poorly designed early style locks.
The poor reliability of the early style locks led T/C to redesign the lock geometry in the mid-late 90s to improve reliability, sparking, and flint life. And coupled with Tom Fuller 3/4"W x 7/8"L black english flints, they just kept running 100% like the EverReady Bunnie.
Of the dozen of so T/C Hawken Flintlocks I owned and hunted with different caliber and gauge barrels, put over 12,000 shots through them, and never had a physical lock problem, never modified a mainspring by cutting it off, etc.
Found the agate 'flints' to be junk and Tom Fuller 5/8" black english flints did a little better in the poorly designed early style locks.
The poor reliability of the early style locks led T/C to redesign the lock geometry in the mid-late 90s to improve reliability, sparking, and flint life. And coupled with Tom Fuller 3/4"W x 7/8"L black english flints, they just kept running 100% like the EverReady Bunnie.
I have an early lock on a TC Hawken that I purposely leave as is. It works fine. It sparks fine. It shoots fine.
I have modified several others and I have a little knowledge of what makes a difference and what doesn't. The best features on the new style lock is the taller cock and the black frizzen. One bogus thing is the idea of cutting a coil, or coils, off the mainspring.
I have modified several others and I have a little knowledge of what makes a difference and what doesn't. The best features on the new style lock is the taller cock and the black frizzen. One bogus thing is the idea of cutting a coil, or coils, off the mainspring.
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I may have just been lucky but I just sent in my 1970's lock and had it replaced with the new style in 7 working days, no charge, no questions asked. On a side note, I have dealt with S & W on several occasions for pistol work and also never had a problem. :idunno: It is very interesting to learn that the flints originally recommended are short in the improved lock. Thanks :thumbsup:
I never had a problem with them either at least after 'roundball' explained how to go about it to me.
Some guys dislike of TC clouds their ability to report accurately and who knows what really happened when they got less than desirable support.
I am glad you got it fixed to your satisfaction. :grin:
Some guys dislike of TC clouds their ability to report accurately and who knows what really happened when they got less than desirable support.
I am glad you got it fixed to your satisfaction. :grin:
barnettshale
36 Cal.
As I said before, the TC lock smashed the flints no matter what I used for a wrap, lead or leather, bevel up, bevel down. The L and R lock I installed appeared to be fine so I took the rifle to a match last Sunday. The lock was dependable, 3 failures to fire out of 35 shots. I was using 4f with a pretty good wind. I think the 4f was being blown out of the pan. I switched to 3f prime and did not have another missfire. The rifle shot fine. Better than these old eyes can see. At 50 yards on a 6 bull target I shot a 30 out of 50 and that was with one miss (0).
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glad to hear of your good result!
I've had so few misfired in my Renegade that I can't actually remember when the last time it didn't go bang (and that counts the times i did bone head stuff like, f'rinstance, no primer in the pan- can't really blame that one on the rifle).
My only complaint is that they persist in sending those God- aweful cut agate thingies as 'flints.' Go with a Rich Pierce and you'll be OK.
I've had so few misfired in my Renegade that I can't actually remember when the last time it didn't go bang (and that counts the times i did bone head stuff like, f'rinstance, no primer in the pan- can't really blame that one on the rifle).
My only complaint is that they persist in sending those God- aweful cut agate thingies as 'flints.' Go with a Rich Pierce and you'll be OK.
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
I had two of the old style TC locks and they were absolutly horrible. I sent them both in for the new design and now they are my favorite locks. They are simply outstanding!
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I shot 75 shots out of the TC 45 cal today using the original cut agate 'flint'. That one has about 150 shots on it now. not much sparkle to it but it just keeps on ticking. I did knap it a little after 40 shots. Pan flash was instant but the main charge needs more technique development. All in all, it has given me better results than my small siler so far.
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
OOOWHEEE!!! Better hope paulvd didn't read that!...BPSebiggs said:
paulvallandigham
Passed On
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Ernie Biggs and I disagree on several matters, but, I believe, agree on many more. :thumbsup:
My views about coil springs depends on what I find is going on with a spring when I see it function. I have worked on tuning coil springs on both modern suppository guns, and on MLers, alone, and with experienced gunsmiths, and have some clear( to me) ideas about when cutting coils improves the function, and when it doesn't. The way a T/C lock is designed, there is only a minimal benefit derived from cutting coils, when the spring "Stacks" at full cock, IMHO. :bow: Different rules apply when tuning a T/C percussion lock than the rules I use to tune a T/C flint lock. :hmm: :shocked2: :hatsoff:
Removing a coil or 3 from both kinds of locks to stop stacking helps both locks perform better in some ways, IMHO.
My views about coil springs depends on what I find is going on with a spring when I see it function. I have worked on tuning coil springs on both modern suppository guns, and on MLers, alone, and with experienced gunsmiths, and have some clear( to me) ideas about when cutting coils improves the function, and when it doesn't. The way a T/C lock is designed, there is only a minimal benefit derived from cutting coils, when the spring "Stacks" at full cock, IMHO. :bow: Different rules apply when tuning a T/C percussion lock than the rules I use to tune a T/C flint lock. :hmm: :shocked2: :hatsoff:
Removing a coil or 3 from both kinds of locks to stop stacking helps both locks perform better in some ways, IMHO.
No, no, Mr. Vallandigham and I are going to have a beer together some day and discuss all this gray area of disagreement. :grin:
Here is what I know and I have decided on springs. I might add that, that coil spring is not the easiest to replace with out proper tools, which I am not the owner of.
But basically I believe the correct spring is always preferred but if a mistake is made stronger is better than too light. :hmm: I destroyed several perfectly good springs removing a coil and coils and could see no improvement. :hmm:
On top of that I let people shoot the gun without telling them it had a modified spring and NO one was able to say, “Hey this is much better. What did you do to it?” :shocked2:
So, all that into consideration, leave your TC or Lyman springs alone. That goes for the frizzen spring, too. :thumbsup:
Here is what I know and I have decided on springs. I might add that, that coil spring is not the easiest to replace with out proper tools, which I am not the owner of.
But basically I believe the correct spring is always preferred but if a mistake is made stronger is better than too light. :hmm: I destroyed several perfectly good springs removing a coil and coils and could see no improvement. :hmm:
On top of that I let people shoot the gun without telling them it had a modified spring and NO one was able to say, “Hey this is much better. What did you do to it?” :shocked2:
So, all that into consideration, leave your TC or Lyman springs alone. That goes for the frizzen spring, too. :thumbsup:
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
I have never had what I considered to be a problem with any of my older T/C locks. I have disassembled a few and polished some of the bearing surfaces and contact areas with fine India and hard Arkansas stones to "slick em' up" but I would never consider messing with a coil spring. I was a machinist for 34 yrs. until my job went to China and I went back to college, and for a number of years I machined parts for, assembled and tested jaw chucks. Part of my job included "hand fitting" very close toleranced parts (+ or - .0005) with diamond files and/or stones so I'm not ignorant of the intricacies of how things like locks work and what to do/not do to smooth them up, but I'll leave any spring work to the gunsmiths...BPSebiggs said:Here is what I know and I have decided on springs. I might add that, that coil spring is not the easiest to replace with out proper tools, which I am not the owner of.
But basically I believe the correct spring is always preferred but if a mistake is made stronger is better than too light. :hmm: I destroyed several perfectly good springs removing a coil and coils and could see no improvement. :hmm:
So, all that into consideration, leave your TC or Lyman springs alone. That goes for the frizzen spring, too. :thumbsup:
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
The only modifications I do to my TC flint locks is replace the spring that pushes down on the sear arm (fits up in a tubelike hole)with a ball point pen spring. Probably would not need to for set trigger models but it sure makes for a nice trigger pull on the single trigger guns.
A second modification I would do is make a good water proof pan/frizzen connection with some JB Weld applied to the underside of the frizzen and filed to a watertight fit. It could be used to fill gaps between the barrel and pan edge as well. It stays put well but still could be removed without damage to the part if one needed or wanted to.
My newer design lock spark great, and provide long flint life. It changed me back to a TC fan and wouldn't change out to an L&R lock. The L&R is a great lock too but it's just not necessary any more.
A second modification I would do is make a good water proof pan/frizzen connection with some JB Weld applied to the underside of the frizzen and filed to a watertight fit. It could be used to fill gaps between the barrel and pan edge as well. It stays put well but still could be removed without damage to the part if one needed or wanted to.
My newer design lock spark great, and provide long flint life. It changed me back to a TC fan and wouldn't change out to an L&R lock. The L&R is a great lock too but it's just not necessary any more.
But as others have said, the new TC lock is much superior to the old style.
I sent mine in for repair several years ago and had the new lock in just a few days, found it to be night and day difference. Cock geomety unlike the old, did not slam the frizzen, flint came in at the right angle and scrapped sparking all the way down.
Doubt TC would not have changed if there had not been an inherent problem with the old style.
I sent mine in for repair several years ago and had the new lock in just a few days, found it to be night and day difference. Cock geomety unlike the old, did not slam the frizzen, flint came in at the right angle and scrapped sparking all the way down.
Doubt TC would not have changed if there had not been an inherent problem with the old style.
