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TC Flint Lock Swap For L&R ?
- Thread starter damron
- Start date
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Walks with fire
54 Cal.
I had two of the old style and they were terrible; I just thought it was normal for a flint lock to behave like that. I heard about the new lock design and sent them both in with a note. I got two new design locks back and I am not joking I have not had one fail to fire yet. The old design would fail to fire even with a new and very sharp flint. That has been my experience with them.
barnettshale
36 Cal.
I have been watching this topic with great interest. I have a used TC Hawken .50 I bought out of a pawn shop with no flint in the jaws. After I got it home to my shop I put a new flint in and it appeared to be fine. Tested it a couple of times with powder in the pan. Hammer was pretty stiff. Frizzen opened with about 1 1/2# pressure. I took it to a match and it took two flints to shoot 30 shots. The first flint lasted about 8 shots and the 2nd one hung in there for the rest. It seemed to smash them as much as any thing. My Cabelas .54 Hawken hammer was pretty good and the frizzen opened with about 2 1/2 # pressure. I changed the flint out on the Cabelas from the sawn agate to a black English knapped flint. It seems to be pretty dependable.
The TC main spring is pretty heavy and the Cabelas is the same coiled type but lighter. Side by side these locks appear to be twins. On the back side pretty similar also. I finally gave up on the TC lock and ordered an L&R replacement for it. It came in Thursday and I finally had time to install it today. I had to remove quite a bit of wood from the lock mortice to install it. Tested with 10 grains 3F in the bore and 3F in the pan. Tried it 3 times and it was good each time.
The lock installed
The TC main spring is pretty heavy and the Cabelas is the same coiled type but lighter. Side by side these locks appear to be twins. On the back side pretty similar also. I finally gave up on the TC lock and ordered an L&R replacement for it. It came in Thursday and I finally had time to install it today. I had to remove quite a bit of wood from the lock mortice to install it. Tested with 10 grains 3F in the bore and 3F in the pan. Tried it 3 times and it was good each time.
The lock installed
barnettshale
36 Cal.
It took me about two hours to fit the lock. When I just about had it finished, I installed the screw and the sear was locked up. Would not cock nor fire. I finally noticed that the sear arm was digging into the wood in the access hole for the trigger bar on the opposite side at the bottom of the hole. Rather that remove any wood at the bottom of the hole I elected to shorten the sear arm slightly. Now works great.
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
I also have an RMC flintlock rifle that comes with the Late English L&R lock; it's the same lock as the L&R replacement lock except it has a little different plate. This lock is very reliable as well and has an outstanding waterproof type pan. When I bought this rifle I quit using my TC because I could not count on it to fire. The new TC lock changed all that for me. I love shooting that PA Hunter flinter now.
I think the newer TC lock is actually a little better lock than the L&R lock once it's tuned a little. There is a slight gap between the frizzen and pan and the sear return spring is too strong for a nice light trigger pull but once I had those fixed it's my favorite lock now.
I think the newer TC lock is actually a little better lock than the L&R lock once it's tuned a little. There is a slight gap between the frizzen and pan and the sear return spring is too strong for a nice light trigger pull but once I had those fixed it's my favorite lock now.
There is a few things, you need to take what some posters say with a grain of salt. You know? There is a lot more to a lock than just posting, it won't work and is a piece of junk.
What flint you are using and how it is installed? What size is it and which side of the bevel is up or down? What wrap and how is it knapped. I have gotten every early TC lock to work. Are they Chambers large Siler? No, but they work! Cut agate flints work, are they any good? No, but they work!
Just saying............................... :hmm:
What flint you are using and how it is installed? What size is it and which side of the bevel is up or down? What wrap and how is it knapped. I have gotten every early TC lock to work. Are they Chambers large Siler? No, but they work! Cut agate flints work, are they any good? No, but they work!
Just saying............................... :hmm:
lucky said:
Identical experience we have had with our two.
Like you, I didn't know they were junk until I read it here. Only problem I have with them is they are coil spring activated. I'm old and stubborn and believe they should all be only flat mainsprings. No logic to that at all, just 'cause. :wink:
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
I think there were some good ones and some bad ones in the past. I don't know why I just know what mine were like. The hammer angle; frizzen hardness; who knows. All I know is that when I tickle that trigger now it's gonna fire and that is a very nice feeling to have when I have a flinter in my hands.
lonehunter
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2009
- Messages
- 2,107
- Reaction score
- 12
I am in need of a T/C lock. Anybody have a extra, shoot me a P.M. maybe we can work out a deal.
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
Send Roundball a PM; he may not see your post and he may have an extra one. He has gotten rid of alot of TC stuff but he may have one.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,538
- Reaction score
- 80
If you look at that second picture on page two, showing the inside of your T/C lock, and that coil spring, the spring is stacked" when you cock the hammer back to full cock, but it isn't when the hammer is forward.
That is the cause of the heavy mainspring tension , and the pain to your thumb after multiple cockings of that hammer. It also is the cause for "Eating" up flints, and giving you short flint life with your expensive flints.
Frankly, T/C should probably correct this under its warranty, but I am not holding my breath, now that its controlled by S&W.
The "fix" is fairly easy to do. Remove the mainspring and its strut from the lock and tumbler. Now remove the spring from the strut. It should simply slide off the strut.
Using a dremel tool grinding or cut-off bit, begin cutting coils. Start small, until you get a personal feel for this. My first attempt at cutting a coiled mainspring, I only cut away 1/4 of a coil. It did almost nothing, except teach me just how hard that steel is to cut. I then cut half a coil, and re-tested it. Again, not much of a change. I use a RCBS Trigger pull gauge, that has a scale that goes up to 72 oz. to measure these things/ I hook the scales arm over the top of the hammer screw, and pull back on the scale to cock the hammer back to full cock.
I don't see a lot of compression waves of that coil spring when the hammer is in full cock, but there is enough to justify removing a coil or two. When the stacking( waves) in the spring are gone, you will notice a real difference in the amount of force needed to cock the hammer back
Mainspring tension also often contributes to a harder than necessary trigger pull. Test the trigger pull with the gauge, or put the butt of the rifle on a bathroom scale, note the weight on the scale's dial, for the gun, and then slowly press back( on either the hammer or trigger, whichever you are testing.) Subtract the number(weight) you get on the scale when the hammer reaches full cock, or the trigger releases the tumbler, respectively to get the tension weight of the spring.
I like a single trigger gun to have a trigger pull of about 4.5-5 lbs. for hunting safely. As long as the trigger pull is smooth, I don't mind the extra spring weight. Cold fingers need some help in the woods, particularly when I experience an adrenaline rush just seeing game coming into range to take a shot.
My set triggers(double-set triggers) are set at a few ounces, to be used ONLY at a range when I am shooting targets, or doing accuracy demonstration by shooting trick shots for audiences. I leave slack in the take-up of these triggers as another safety margin.
The first coil spring I fixed was on a lever action rifle that belonged to a friend of mine. The original spring had over 8 lbs. of tension for the trigger pull. When we removed enough coils to stop the stacking, it was still more than 6 lbs. We cut a few more coils, 1/2 coil at a time, to take the weight down to 4.5 lbs. The change in his ability to shoot his rifle accurately was dramatic- so much that he called me at my office to tell me from his father's house, where he had as range available to test fire the gun during the day.
My friend began collecting lever action rifles in a variety of calibers, but once seeing how to tune these coil springs, he did the springs on his other gun without my help. He ended up with a fine collection of very accurate lever action guns with fine trigger pulls, that were the envy of all who got a change to shoot them. They ranged in calibers from .44-40 on up to .375 Winchester. He died before Winchester began making its larger bore lever guns again. He astounded people with how accurate he could shoot either his .38-55 or .375 Winchesters using open sights.
That is the cause of the heavy mainspring tension , and the pain to your thumb after multiple cockings of that hammer. It also is the cause for "Eating" up flints, and giving you short flint life with your expensive flints.
Frankly, T/C should probably correct this under its warranty, but I am not holding my breath, now that its controlled by S&W.
The "fix" is fairly easy to do. Remove the mainspring and its strut from the lock and tumbler. Now remove the spring from the strut. It should simply slide off the strut.
Using a dremel tool grinding or cut-off bit, begin cutting coils. Start small, until you get a personal feel for this. My first attempt at cutting a coiled mainspring, I only cut away 1/4 of a coil. It did almost nothing, except teach me just how hard that steel is to cut. I then cut half a coil, and re-tested it. Again, not much of a change. I use a RCBS Trigger pull gauge, that has a scale that goes up to 72 oz. to measure these things/ I hook the scales arm over the top of the hammer screw, and pull back on the scale to cock the hammer back to full cock.
I don't see a lot of compression waves of that coil spring when the hammer is in full cock, but there is enough to justify removing a coil or two. When the stacking( waves) in the spring are gone, you will notice a real difference in the amount of force needed to cock the hammer back
Mainspring tension also often contributes to a harder than necessary trigger pull. Test the trigger pull with the gauge, or put the butt of the rifle on a bathroom scale, note the weight on the scale's dial, for the gun, and then slowly press back( on either the hammer or trigger, whichever you are testing.) Subtract the number(weight) you get on the scale when the hammer reaches full cock, or the trigger releases the tumbler, respectively to get the tension weight of the spring.
I like a single trigger gun to have a trigger pull of about 4.5-5 lbs. for hunting safely. As long as the trigger pull is smooth, I don't mind the extra spring weight. Cold fingers need some help in the woods, particularly when I experience an adrenaline rush just seeing game coming into range to take a shot.
My set triggers(double-set triggers) are set at a few ounces, to be used ONLY at a range when I am shooting targets, or doing accuracy demonstration by shooting trick shots for audiences. I leave slack in the take-up of these triggers as another safety margin.
The first coil spring I fixed was on a lever action rifle that belonged to a friend of mine. The original spring had over 8 lbs. of tension for the trigger pull. When we removed enough coils to stop the stacking, it was still more than 6 lbs. We cut a few more coils, 1/2 coil at a time, to take the weight down to 4.5 lbs. The change in his ability to shoot his rifle accurately was dramatic- so much that he called me at my office to tell me from his father's house, where he had as range available to test fire the gun during the day.
My friend began collecting lever action rifles in a variety of calibers, but once seeing how to tune these coil springs, he did the springs on his other gun without my help. He ended up with a fine collection of very accurate lever action guns with fine trigger pulls, that were the envy of all who got a change to shoot them. They ranged in calibers from .44-40 on up to .375 Winchester. He died before Winchester began making its larger bore lever guns again. He astounded people with how accurate he could shoot either his .38-55 or .375 Winchesters using open sights.
ebiggs said:
shot the TC with offending lock again today.I used TC cut agate flints this time.I got 7 shots on one and 11 on another before they were knapped beyond sparking.But....it sparks well and goes off fast until that and the gun shoots close to 1.5" at 50 yards (even with myself a "new to flintlock" guy.
George
Right off the lock won't fit your stock. Drop in does not mean exactly drop-in!. :shocked2: After that you still need to find out the best way to use the L&R. It does have some better things about it but still needs to have things the way it likes it. I suggest the largest Tom Fuller flint you can get to fit with a leather wrap (notch the back) and bevel up. :thumbsup: For starters! :hmm:
I'm not too concerned about fitting it to the stock I'm a pretty decent wood worker.If it doesn't eat up flints i will be happy and consider it a victory.I'll have some of the larger flints ordered then. Thanks for the tip.
Should i finish the lock or leave it in the white?
george
Should i finish the lock or leave it in the white?
george
