T/C Hawken breach plug

[Zonie]

Why is it that TC ( along with many other factory rifles) use a patent breech like this but all the custom rifles don’t? What is the advantage?? Seems like it would be an added expense so that doesn’t makes sense that TC, CVA, Investarms, etc would use them. Greg

The breech plugs used by the big factory's are almost always made from castings. Adding a hollow feature to the casting isn't a problem. This hollow area is also useful to the factory's because a hole needs to be drilled that will connect the bore with the nipple or the vent hole. The hollow allows the drill bit to get way down in the hole before it starts drilling so it doesn't have to drill very deeply to get to the nipple hole or vent hole.

Actually, back in the late 1700's the idea of having a smaller, shaped, powder charge ignite first so that the flame produced by it would light the rest of the main powder charge quickly was Patented. A man named Nock was the first to Patent this idea. His "Patent breech" looked like this.

Other gun makers wanted to use this idea without paying Nock for the rights so they came up with the Chambered type of breech that is used on most of the modern factory made guns.

 

[sportster73hp]

I stopped using a wire brush at all after getting one stuck. Warm to hot water with any liquid soap place breach end of barrel in water using a wetted patch and snug jag work the water thru the plug and nipple. Remove the nipple and work some more. Dry patches ,oiled patch or two . Replace nipple with anti-seize applied and put gun back together. Done! Maybe i am lazy but it works.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Sportster, I use a method similar to yours. I find pumping water through the breech with the nipple removed must get most of the fouling out of a TC breech. I just don't have failures to fire if other things are correct. I think the fast moving of water/soap combination cleans the breech are pretty well. After the soapy water and rinse water I blow down the barrel to get most of the water out through the breech. Follow that with WD40 to get rid of more moisture, dry patches followed by a patch with barricade or a lightly oiled patch. I have a kit TC Hawken that is 40 years old that I built and the rifle is still very good and it shoots well.

 

[deerstalkert]

I use a stepped bristle brush designed for cleaning ar15 30 cal chambers and locking recess. have never stuck one and it does what I want. first time I used one I about gagged on what I pulled out of the bottom of the breech plug.

 

[Bledfor Days]

I use a .30 cal wire brush with a 2x2 patch to get into the patent breech also. I like to have more of the patch material above the top of the brush and give it a twist with my fingers before inserting it into the barrel. This way the patch material goes into the breech ahead of the top of the brush and you can spin it around and really get the breech clean. A fixed handle on the cleaning rod helps.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The breech plug on the left in Waarpoints' picture has a machined powder chamber. I have had several TC barrels and breech plugs, the powder chambers were never machined on any of them. The center breech plug is typical of the "as cast" powder chambers on TC breech plugs. The one of the right is typical for a person who just runs patches up and down for a cleaning instead of the proper hot water in bucket flushing that most do. The intense swirling of the hot water from the patched jag pumping up and down acts a bit like a pressure washer and would clean all that crud out. The powder chamber in the as cast breech plugs from TC generally ran about 3/8's of an inch in diameter, plus or minus a few hundredths of an inch.. A 38 caliber brush would reach into the chamber but shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Carbon 6]

I've never used a brush on a patent breech and never had a problem. I have unbreeched both a T/C and an Investarms after decades of use, both were squeaky clean.

 

[Bent Sight]

If I am referring to a TC Hawken or CVA Kentucky rifle, I should use the term "chambered breech" and not patent breech?

 

[Barry Strickland]

Zonie, I find the patent picture in post #21 of some interest. I am not very familiar with double guns but wonder if this was a common way of manufacture. The picture actually shows a transverse common hole drilled and tapped between the two breeches. A threaded screw is then inserted between the two creating the two "anti-chambers. Then the outer touch hole liners are installed, platinum perhaps?

 

[Carbon 6]

I use a stepped bristle brush designed for cleaning ar15 30 cal chambers and locking recess. have never stuck one and it does what I want. first time I used one I about gagged on what I pulled out of the bottom of the breech plug.

If a brush is pulling out stuff to make you "gag" after you have cleaned your gun, you need to seriously re-think your cleaning method.
If a brush pulls out "gag-able" gunk before you clean, well, that's just normal.

 

[Carbon 6]

If I am referring to a TC Hawken or CVA Kentucky rifle, I should use the term "chambered breech" and not patent breech?

Anything other than a flat faced breech plug is technically a "patent" breech plug in my opinion. "Chambered" simply denotes the type of patent or non-traditional plug.

 

[fourbore]

If the inlines had never taken hold to dominate primitive deer season, I bet there would have been more subtle improvements. It may not be necessary, but; seems like there could be a little more access from the rear. Reduced diameter plug within the main plug. You could drive out patches or balls. And clean. The same diameter as the ram rod?

 

[Carbon 6]

If the inlines had never taken hold to dominate primitive deer season, I bet there would have been more subtle improvements. It may not be necessary, but; seems like there could be a little more access from the rear. Reduced diameter plug within the main plug. You could drive out patches or balls. And clean. The same diameter as the ram rod?

By the time cartridge guns took over in the 1860's, the muzzleloader had been perfected. It had reached the zenith of development. That still holds true today.

 

[Zonie]

Zonie, I find the patent picture in post #21 of some interest. I am not very familiar with double guns but wonder if this was a common way of manufacture. The picture actually shows a transverse common hole drilled and tapped between the two breeches. A threaded screw is then inserted between the two creating the two "anti-chambers. Then the outer touch hole liners are installed, platinum perhaps?

It wasn't a "common practice" for anyone except for Nock. As I mentioned, he had a Patent on the design that prevented others from using it in the guns they built.
Henry Nock (1741-1804) was a inventor and gun maker in England. He built some of the finest guns in England for noblemen and Royalty. His guns were thought of as the top of the line.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find platinum lined vent plugs in the guns he built. (Even then, platinum was much too valuable and soft to make the entire vent plug out of it. They were, and still are made from steel or in Nock's case, iron, with a platinum plug thru the center of them. The actual vent hole is drilled thru the platinum plug.)