Suggestions on this nose cap fix?

[Rifleman1776]

Everybody, take a break.
Go outside, take some deep breaths, kick a stump. Come back later.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Lighting within 10! Flight line shut down!

 

[BrownBear]

...pouring the nose cap instead.

That's the best suggestion I've heard if you can live with a pewter nose cap. It's real straight forward to do.

 

[SDSmlf]

If the remaining wood is solid, consider a poured pewter nose cap. Would still require some additional mechanical attachment to the stock where there is no wood. Possibly some small pins? I have used brass screws (#8s mostly, but sometimes #6s) run into a slightly underside hole, letting the screw thread the hole in the wood for a tight fit. Cut/file the head off to the length you need and you have a solid pin in a thin piece of wood. The threaded pin(s) should give the pewter something to grip to.

And for the record, I have poured pewter nose caps (follow the directions or you can have problems) and inserted threaded pins many times, but have never used the pins as a foundation or base for cast pewter. But I believe it will work. I am sure others will weigh in....

From Track of Wolf - PEWTER Pewter, one pound ingot of casting pewter for forend caps, with instructions. Price: $7.99

 

[billraby]

Its a fairly simple repair. Cut off the broken piece flush with the stock. Then carve out a new piece that matches the part that broke off, but about an inch longer. Then inlet that extra inch into the end of the stock. It gets you full piece of wood for the muzzle cap and a strong joint for the glue. No need to pour a cap or shorten the stock.

 

[Davemuzz]

... and for that I would like to apologize to Dave.

Thank you. I appreciate your extension of an apology and know that I do accept it. I've been fortunate to have been on this planet long enough to know not to sweat the small stuff. And frankly, 99.99% is small stuff.

Had it not been for my own mishandling of the piece on the drill press, I wouldn't be in this "fix."

BTW, & FWIW....the nose cap is steel and not brass. I only have two very small brass pieces on the M\L. Those are the dime size "washers" on the lock bolts.

The attachment of a nose piece extension is worth much consideration, albeit the "tab" is thin.....I think it's .170.

Pouring metal with "hot" attached to the project is not something I'm willing (or for that matter able) to do. You see, not that I play the sympathy card, but the fact is I have MS and can only do things in small chunks.

Cutting and re-crowning is not out of the realm. However, I don't have the wear-with-all to cut a tube that big by hand. The crown clean up is not something I would be afraid of.

The Acraglass is on it's way. I liked this as I can add some brown color to hide even more of my mistake.

For now I've turned my thoughts to thinning down the forestock. Not there yet......but working on it. Slowly.......slowly...... :grin: (Yes....I am working from right to left....and am aware of the thickness difference!)

 

[Crewdawg445]

Excellent, keep us updated on the progress. Unfortunately words are emotion on forums... Rather it would be much better if everyone could just sit down and talk face to face, I personally do not drink, but I'll buy the beers!

 

[Black Hand]

Its a fairly simple repair. Cut off the broken piece flush with the stock. Then carve out a new piece that matches the part that broke off, but about an inch longer. Then inlet that extra inch into the end of the stock. It gets you full piece of wood for the muzzle cap and a strong joint for the glue. No need to pour a cap or shorten the stock.

Excellent suggestion! I had thought of suggesting the same but hadn't come up with a good way to explain it. You would get longitudinal (wood) glue joints that would be strong. The only caveat would be to keep everything level so you don't break through the stock. Any slight imperfections would be hidden.

BUT - there isn't much a margin for error at the edges of the front end and the top, only the thickness of the steel nosecap while there is a little more space below. Too much to either side or top, and the repair becomes visible because it would be exposed when you shape the wood around the nosecap.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The good news at this point is that you still have the original pieces, and a lot of web thickness to work with. You might consider inletting the barrel channel deeper for about 2"-3" under the MC, and back in to the channel, and getting some rather sheer 2 oz epoxy fiberglass cloth, (if you can't find 2 oz then use 4 oz, but that's more thickness, and strength you don't really need) laying it in there, and then putting the resin on there (over the cloth) to create a form of a splint.

You could even do it as a wrap on the outside too, but now you're getting perilously close to having almost no wood left under the MC.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

It means a lot to me that you accepted my apology, we're a tight nit group and bad blood doesn't help matters.

Another option you could consider is purchasing a longer nose cap. After you perform the fix you're happy with, install it using two solid copper rivets with the one towards the muzzle being a faux one only run through the cap for cosmetic purposes (so as not to place further stress on the repair) and the one in the rear anchoring it firmly to the stock. This would provide additional stability to the repair and further strengthen the nose end of your stock.

Everyone makes mistakes, the trick is to learn to celebrate them.

 

[Davemuzz]

No Problem Obie.

Celebrate my mistakes? I'd have a daily hangover if I did that!! Just ask my wife!!! :thumbsup: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Davemuzz]

Thanks BH and Col. B.

I'm still thinking as my bedding compound is on it's way. So.....time I got. Until then I'll keep working on forend shaping.

Actually, this ain't my "first rodeo" with a thin piece in an obvious place. When I built my flint pistol I had a chunk of walnut break right in front of the lock plate. The grain ran such that the break angled down towards the RR hole.

My fix was drilling two very small holes at the opposite angel, then "roughing up" the outside of two very small metal pins.....application of wood glue to the crack and in the pilot holes....."wrap 'n wait."

To this day (since 2010) it's held strong under many hunting and range shooting circumstances.

FWIW

 

[BrownBear]

Sounds as though you had it all figured out before you asked us to take time and respond to your request for recommendations.

Do carry on, and I'll not bother you again.

 

[Black Hand]

Sounds like you have all the tools/knowledge needed to get the broken pieces back in place and re-enforce the area.

Please - no more JB Weld. It has its uses, but not in traditional gun building despite being mentioned in a muzzleloader building book - sounds like a crutch the author used to avoid getting a perfect fit the right way...

 

[Davemuzz]

Well, my pistol was rather easy to figure out.....plus I did that 8 years ago. (Seems like yesterday).

This one was\is very much different in the fact that the piece is so thin. I only mentioned the pistol build to let readers know that I have some experience (once is experience?) in this.

Obviously from my choice of "bonding material" my experience is limited. OTOH, the JB Weld that I have states it can be used on wood as well as metal. So I thought............. :idunno:

The idea of using JB was mine....but the use of a bonding agent came from a gun build on youtube, not the author of Grenville.

Dave

 

[Davemuzz]

BTW.....I did not have how I wanted to fix this pre-determined before I posted the question. I realize there are more than one way to "skin a cat" as the expression goes.

As a complete amateur, I know that there are methods and approaches that I just don't know. So, I was looking for suggestions as to what the members thought may be the "best" solution.

And you guys have posted what you believe are the best method(s) that you think will work. And I really appreciate that.

When I worked for a living, I advised many individual's about tax law. Now, not everyone would follow my advice....but I always had suggestions to issues. (And like me.....those individuals always came back!!)

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Dane]

Davemuzz,
I've been quietly reading, and biting my tongue.
To this point, I've seen other posts of yours that seem to indicate you tend to ask for help for repairs, rather than seek to learn the proper way to approach a job first.
I think that's why you got the jab about educational materials.
First ..... throw away the J B Weld.

Now, that being said, there is a pretty easy way to fix this the RIGHT way.
If you have some wood from the same piece, or just some similar maple, (not much will show anyway).
Cut a piece that will replace the entire end of the stock. ( cut the damaged piece flush with where it broke off.
You will have to shape the piece to match the existing piece to the end of the barrel.
While a end to end glue joint will not hold, you can drill in two 6/32 screws into both pieces, and glue it all in place. It will hold forever. Then reshape and install your nose cap.
I hope this made sense, and it helps.
Last thing, grow a little thicker skin. If you're going to post stuff like this, some people are gonna take a shot at you.
Good luck.

 

[54ball]

Likely your repair would have held up fine... but that boat has sailed.
This is what I would do and it's some good old fashioned and peroid hand work, so everybody should love it.

Remember the Gillespie Rifle I showed in a recent post about ramrod grooves? That, come to think of it may not have been you.

Anyway that rifle has a triangle shaped upper forestock. I had intended to keep the triangle shape with the groove all the way to the end with a grooved triangle shaped cap.

By triangle...,I mean the upper foreshock is shaped like normal at the barrel but it is V shaped with the bottom of the V being the ramrod groove.
This feature was common on some Southern rifles, rifles from the Lehigh Valley and....Lemans!

The Lemans with the V'ed forestock had no nose cap transition. They simply used a grooved open face brass cap.

To explain this more the V shape went from entry to the muzzle.
On your Leman ( if it was mine) I would do the V forestock to the end and use a simple open face cap.

Keeping the forestock v'ed to the end means more wood ( a lot more) for the repair. The end piece can be attached by pins drilled into both pieces and glued. Being the whole forestock you have more wood to do this.

V your forestock.
Have a suitable piece of maple... it does not have to match.
Groove this piece but keep it long enough to have a working end and a end you can clamp in a vice.
Match ( shape) this piece to your V shaped fore stock.
You should now have a grooved and shaped piece of wood that matches the forestock.
This piece is tedious because you'll have to cut the barrel channel but maybe after the cap is formed.
Use your sheet of brass and form a simple open face grooved cap.
This piece is longer to form the cap.
Form the cap using the new grooved piece as a form.
Cut in the barrel on your little piece of forstock.
You should have a formed open faced grooved cap and a piece of forstock in the vice.
Drill the end of your rifle sock for pins... do the same for your your new piece.
Cut your new end to correct length and glue together.
If your piece was long enough you can save it as a form for more V shaped caps in the future.
The new open face cap is now fit to the end covering the glued and pinned joint.
To affix the cap.
You can rivet it but I would use very small and most importantly short brass screws. I would use 4.
2 for each side of the joint into the thickest portion of the wood.
I would countersink the brass cap...
Screw the brass screws in...
File the heads off....
Done!

By the way the only original Leman I have handled had the open face v'ed cap.
I hope that made sense.... good luck.

Remember, too It's not the mistakes you make..., It's the recovery.
My old fire chief told me that one.

 

[Davemuzz]

Thanks Gents! It appears that pins will be in this stocks future. Last evening I even consulted with my Son (a major manufacture's engineer) about this. He's never built a gun in his life but he did state that the half-piece that is still attached is likely very strong, and wherever I repair it, that point will be strong....but it's the area just "outside" the repair that will likely be the weakest. (I think I stated what he was trying to tell me correctly)

BTW.....I also ordered a "Lead hardness tester" along with a new product called "Skin thickness measure" for future use. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Eric Krewson]

I am a big fan of super glue and sawdust, several of my hack job nose cap inlets have been built back up and filed to shape with this combination.