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Still Looking for First ML

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jefftx

36 Cal.
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
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As the subject states, I am still looking to purchase my first black powder rifle, preferably a .54 and will be using it to hunt whitetail and hogs primarily. I have many years of hunting experience with modern rifles and archery.
This forum has been a wealth of knowledge. Thanks. I've been searching thru the auction sites and am not comfortable purchasing overpriced MLs sight unseen.
My plan is to attend some gun shows in my area in the next few weeks.
What should I be looking for aside from the bore? Thanks.
 
Before going, buy a cheap fishing "bobber light" for a couple bucks, you can turn it on and drop it down the bore. Look at the muzzle not just the bore, nicks and dents there can be a problem.
Look around the bolster where the nipple goes in and the hammer cup. If those areas are clean it's an indication the rifle was cared for properly,, if pitted with corrosion it can indicate neglect.

Pull the hammer back to half cock and then use your thumb to put a little pressure on it pressing forward,, ditto at full cock,, your checking for tumbler/sear wear making sure the hammer stays in position,, you don't have to be a gorilla here just a little pressure.

Hold the barrel up to your nose and take a good whiff, if it smells like a copper penny, the barrel has been re-blued with a cold wash bluing. The stuff soon wears off.
All this stuff will help you dicker the price down,,
There is/are a lot of things problematic with used rifles we here can help you repair.

Buying from auctions can actually be a good bet, just look for ad's that offer money back returns.
And keep in mind rifles that fail some of the above tests, even mildly pitted bores, can still be good shooters, a diamond in the ruff,,
Locks and triggers can fail a quick test and may only need a deep cleaning to remove old gummy oils. Bores can be cleaned and polished and muzzle crowns re-dressed,, all this done at your kitchen table.
Be familiar with different models and twist rates, look for twist rates stamped on the barrels, 1-20/1-32 is usually shallow groove for modern sabots,, 1-48 and higher is for a ball shooter and some minnie/maxie ball.
Thompson Centers have gone way high lately, Investarms makes Lyman rifles and some models are simply stamped Investarms
 
Thank you John. Great info. There was a nice looking TC Renegade .54 sold today on auction for $190 delivered but the barrel was marked K. I understand that's kit. Probably a good deal, but I also want to put a few in my hands and up to my cheek to see what feels right. There's also a Spanish-Ardesa on auction now, double wedge. Looks very clean.
 
Ardesa!! They make/have made many of the Spanish CVA and Traditional Arms rifles out there and are a great rifle.
Yeah, that Renegade would have been a good deal.
Don't worry too much the market is fluid,, rifles for sale all the time.
Local guns shows seldom have many Traditional Ml's, they push Black guns and plenty of modern ML. I might find 3-4 trad rifles at a show. Anything with a price tag over $200 and I'll walk past it.
But like I said, we can help ya fix just about anything.
 
The price of a rifle is often determined by the components that went into the rifle. A nice piece of maple is priced according to the curl or stripes. The closer they are and consistent throughout the stock determines the price. A good lock, regardless if it is cap or flint, made by a reputable name, such as Siler, Davis or L&R, is worth the extra money. Same goes for the trigger. A barrel may be straight or swamped. A swamped barrel is big at the breech and small in the middle and again big at the muzzle. A swamped barrel cost more, but once you handle one and feel the weight and balance, you'll realize the importance. Here again, a Rice barrel, or Colrain barrel, or even older Douglas barrel, is worth the extra money. Now the next factor is the art work. The price is often based on the artist ability to not only carve the stock and perhaps embellish with inlays, but a lot of what makes a rifle, is how it compares to the originals from certain regions. A Lancaster, or Virginia rifle can be an early or late version. A Southern Mountain and a Tennessee rifle will not look exactly alike or even closely alike to an expert.

The same person could make two rifles and each be of the best quality. They could even have the same triggers, lock and barrel. One might be a plain Southern iron mounted rifle and the other be a fancy Lancaster rifle. The Southern Mt. rifle might sell for $1700. to $2000. while the Lancaster might sell for $6000. if the rifle has a lot of relief carving, inlays, patch box, and engraving.

It's hard to put a price on craftsmanship and art.
My rifles are plain, but quality. I hunt with them and shoot them often.

Choosing used rifles, takes research, luck, a keen eye. I've drug home some orphan rifles, knowing they would be a challenge to rework. But I've been lucky, and seem to have an eye for what they can be. I can rework a quality part's rifle, easier than I can build or buy one.

If I were hunting hogs (Which is on my bucket list) and I wanted a cap lock in a large caliber, I would probably by a custom built Hawken. When you get into Hawken rifles, and I mean copies of the J&S Hawkens, they are very difficult to find one's that are period correct. And, they can get pricey depending on the quality of materials and craftsmanship. Of course if you are looking for a lower price starter rifle, a TC Hawken, Lyman, or Pedersoli Hawken might be what you're looking for.

Best of luck
 
First off...what are you willing to spend? Sounds like you're in the market for a factory rifle "bargain". Good luck.....Fred
 
Yes Fred. For my first BP rifle looking for a cap lock in .54 about $200 range. I'm figuring with all the accessories, powder, round balls, jag, patches, lube, caps (cci magnums), etc. I'll be around $300.

I also found online a nib cabelas plain dark wood checkered stock .54 with I think 26" barrel for 250. Aren't those made by investarms?
 
Yes, Investarms made many/most of the Cabela's branded rifles.

If you have the option (depends what you find where you are looking) an older/used Thompson Center or Lyman (Investarms) might be slightly preferable to a CVA or Traditions.

They were all "decent" guns but the US/Italian made rifles might have been a little better built than the Spanish made stuff.

Of course, condition is everything when talking used...
 
JeffTx said:
Yes Fred. For my first BP rifle looking for a cap lock in .54 about $200 range. I'm figuring with all the accessories, powder, round balls, jag, patches, lube, caps (cci magnums), etc. I'll be around $300.

I also found online a nib cabelas plain dark wood checkered stock .54 with I think 26" barrel for 250. Aren't those made by investarms?

I have 2 cabelas (investarms) .54 hawkins. They are shooters. Price about perfect for NIB. less than I paid for sure (15+ years ago?
 
you should be able to find a lyman stalker in .54 cal. I have one and it was my first ML. Should sell it, have not shot it in years. Even has a fast twist .50 cal dehaas barrel with it.

The lyman will make a great first rifle.

Fleener
 
Buy something worth having, especially for the first one. Personally I would budget a little more $$$ and look at new stuff. A lot of the entry level guns are something that someone started with and either lost interest or moved on to something better. There is also a lot of stuff that was imported back in the 70's when everybody was trying to hop on the BP bandwagon, and some had some questionable quality. If you end up buying someone else's problems you will only get frustrated.

Look at a Lyman GPR in 54 caliber. That rifle will be all you ever need.
 
a 54cal Lyman Great Plains kit is available at Midsouth for $435.00 and finished Trade Rifle or Deerstalker for $390.00 each.
 
to start off buy a cva bobcat 50 cal. there are dozens listed for under a 100 bucks. I traded for one years ago and put in storage. due to medical problems I am no longer able to haul a 9 lb. musket. and packs. I sited it and am surprise by the accuracy . only wieghts 5 lb.
 
While not a .54cal, The Traditions Hawken Woodsman is an amazing rifle. They are $388 at muzzle-loaders dot com

Just bedded the trigger assembly on mine, one hell of a rifle and accurate as sin with patched round balls.
IMG_7352.jpg

IMG_7354.jpg
 
JeffTx said:
Yes Fred. For my first BP rifle looking for a cap lock in .54 about $200 range. I'm figuring with all the accessories, powder, round balls, jag, patches, lube, caps (cci magnums), etc. I'll be around $300.

I also found online a nib cabelas plain dark wood checkered stock .54 with I think 26" barrel for 250. Aren't those made by investarms?

Jump on that Investarms / Cabelas. You'll later regret it if you don't get it, especially at that price for NIB. It's a comfortable rifle to carry and shoot & any accuracy issues will be with the shooter & not the rifle :rotf:

.54 cal is easy to work up accurate loads with, much more latitude than with even .50 cal. You could spend much more and do much worse with a different rifle.

I got one a few years ago at a gunshow. It was in mechanically good shape, except for a large pit in the bore close to the muzzle. Nevertheless, it is among my most accurate rifles and would be one of the last (cap rifles) I would ever part with.
 
Okay. I couldn't wait for gun shows and bought a .54 cabelas, unfired, 29" barrel, hawken style without the brass. Pics looked awesome and reputable seller. I will do a thorough cleaning before going to the range and open a new thread with pics after the first smoke fills the air. Can't wait, Been reading a lot on how to get started.

Now to order RBs, range rod, etc., suggestions of a good online store? My bass pro shop down here does not have a lot of choices.
 
I suggest looking into a bullet muold.I got mine for 40 bucks.Then all you need is iron dipper with a pour spout and a plumbers torch and some lead. If you plan on keeping the gun for any length of time and shooting more than lets say 200 rounds a year, this will be a small investment that will save quite a bit on ammo.

@20 bucks per hundred, purchasing round lead ball adds up quick. SC
 

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