squared v rounded stock

[Elnathan]

one book source seems to be the single best - Foxfire, book number 5.
These college kids went into the Appalachians in an effort to record old knowledge before it was to be lost forever.
In this book the gunsmiths who had passed the trade from the colonial era detail the process of building the rifle from pig iron to varnish.
It also goes in depth about tempering springs in molten lead.

Foxfire has a website where the books are to be had, but your local library might had the entire set ( although only this book deals with gunsmithing).

btw, pay heavy users of emoticons no mind. it's easier to use the little picture than to express a clear thought.

Um, it also only shows one original up close and the rest of the pictures aren't very good. I like the book, but it is pretty much useless for learning about rifle architecture.

Go to your library ank ask about getting Rifles of Colonial America via interlibrary loan. The reference info for the second edition is:

Shumway, George. Rifles of Colonial America, vol 1 & 2, 2nd ed. York, Pennsylvania: George Shumway, Publisher, 2002.

It probably is the best balance between availability and good pictures. Once you look at it than you might understand a bit better where the more experienced among us are coming from.

 

[tallbear]

Matt
There seems to be more than a few young men such as yourself floating around these forums.You are full of enthusiasm ,short on funds and don't have enough common sence to listen instead of arguing when people try to help you.the books you need to look for were listed for you by JDK
"The Gunsmiths of Grenville County" Peter Alexander, out of print, rumored to be re-released this summer.

"The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" Chuck Dixon

"Recreating the American Longrifle" by William Buchelle, George Shumway, and Peter Alexander

And anything from Shumway Publishing http://www.shumwaypublisher.com/

There are others too. If one can not afford to purchase these there is always the inter-library loan program.

Foxfire is a poor choice to learn gunbuilding from.If you really are 23(not 16) be mature enough to get copies of these books somehow,read them and then return with your questions.You will save yourself a lot of grief.

Mitch

 

[rich pierce]

Matty, I agree 100% that books are needed but the best is to have the book and the rifle together. if you can get to a show or museum where a famous rifle is on the table and you have the book in front of you, it becomes clear what flat pictures can and cannot convey.

If you PM me I can gather together some articles, photocopy them and mail them to you next week.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

one book source seems to be the single best - Foxfire, book number 5.
These college kids went into the Appalachians in an effort to record old knowledge before it was to be lost forever.

You need to read the books a little more carefully, The "Foxfire" students are high school students, not college students. I'm not denigrating them by pointing this out, "Foxfire" is a wonderfully done project with excellent supervision by a caring teacher. It does require reading carefully to understand the project as well as to reap any benefit from the knowledge imparted.

In this book the gunsmiths who had passed the trade from the colonial era detail the process of building the rifle from pig iron to varnish.
It also goes in depth about tempering springs in molten lead.

Foxfire has a website where the books are to be had, but your local library might had the entire set ( although only this book deals with gunsmithing).

btw, pay heavy users of emoticons no mind. it's easier to use the little picture than to express a clear thought.

Really? Hmmmm..... I like this one. :bull:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Listen, before you open your gun factory I suggest you build a gun. Start tomorrow. Get the parts and have at it. Any one of the "How too" books will get you through the build and they aren't expensive. There is also my tutorial that is FREE that should really help you out.
I started building guns when I was 23. There was no internet back then. I bought "recreating the american longrifle". a hand full of cheap ass chisels, enough parts to build a gun and went after it ass over elbows. I ended up with a very shootable gun in a short time. Not the best gun, but far better than a factory built gun. You need to do the same. Less time spent on the computer with ridiculous observations and more time putting chisel to wood.
And don't start with the poor mouth. When I started building I was making minimum wage and managed just fine.

 

[Elnathan]

And don't start with the poor mouth. When I started building I was making minimum wage and managed just fine.

I started at fifteen with money I earned from mowing lawns. A set of cheap carving tools, a 4-in-1 rasp, and a set of needle files, eked out with better tools as necessity and funds warrant, will take a beginner far.

 

[Elnathan]

Double post removed.

 

[jdkerstetter]

btw, pay heavy users of emoticons no mind. it's easier to use the little picture than to express a clear thought.

Matty, A word on emoticons. As I am sure you already know but, the original purpose for them was not to be "cute" or replace the expression of clear thought but to convey the emotion of the writer as it is often difficult for the reader of the written word to interpret....you know, to save confusion and avoid misunderstandings.

Perhaps if you used them we could understand your intent better. Being disrespectful will get you nowhere, here or in real life.

Are those thoughts clear enough for you?

The rest of you guys....Keep up the good work.

Enjoy, J.D.

Look, I did all that without one emoticon! :thumbsup: Me! OOPS!!! (Now that was just to be cute)

 

[jdkerstetter]

It makes for a difficult learning environment when those who don't know are berated for our misunderstandings rather than explained the facts.

Perhaps now we have a better understanding of why Matty was receiving some grief.

I not saying it's right.

As you read earlier in this string, after I saw some of the responses to his inquiry, instead of just piling on I went back a read most of his old posts....this behavior is typical.

....and yet many are still willing to help. But how many simply won't, he'll never know.

I am always willing to help somebody as somebody was always willing to help me....and I still have allot to learn....but some people can be their own worst enemies.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[mattybock]

I've handled a few antiques, many with flat toes that curved upward toward the wrist and at least one other partially flat surface somewhere on the stock.
I'm not yanking anyone's chain, if it's a simple mistake, then so be it.
Maybe the gun I was holding didn't exist and was a figment of my imagination.

 

[mattybock]

so either there something cute about my lack of books or about modern books making heavy use of modern machinery??? :youcrazy:

 

[mattybock]

i'll have a look for these books online. the local library is small and with very few gunsmithing books, and of those none have a thing to do with muzzleloaders.

 

[mattybock]

I'll have a good look around for some better quality books, and if I can't find anything of use then I'll give you a message. thank you.

 

[mattybock]

would you like to give you the page numbers and paragraphs detailing iron making, varnishes and lead tempering?
don't call BS on someone unless you know it's a fib.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The :bull: was referring to your comment on emoticons. As far as the comments on page numbers "detailing iron making, varnishes and lead tempering", you can find them easily enough if you get the books and read them, they are out there but don't expect too much on iron making in reference to gunmakers, the gunsmith didn't dig raw ore from the ground, he got his barrels, locks and (if iron) furniture from suppliers.

BTW, I'm done.

 

[Elnathan]

would you like to give you the page numbers and paragraphs detailing iron making, varnishes and lead tempering?
don't call BS on someone unless you know it's a fib.

It is not so much that the info is wrong as it is that the info is incomplete. An example might be tempering in lead - it is mentioned in Foxfire 5, but not explained, and it took me around fifteen years to realize that the lead wasn't being used as a quenchant so much as an indication of proper temperature. How it was actually done is still a mystery to me...

Also, the book is primarily anthropological in nature, recording memories and the culture of rifle-making. It is not a how-to book and is not really intended as such, though it does have some info in it. You can't learn proper architecture, gun-fitting, etc., and its account of the history of the longrifle is forty years out of date.

I love Foxfire 5 and it provided a lot of inspiration when I was just starting out, but it is not book from which you can really learn either gunsmithing or good history from.

 

[mattybock]

I'll have a look at it. Meanwhile, here's a neat bit, check out the Google library. There's a great deal of books from 1840-1930 concerning machinery, lathe work, military centerfire arms and milling. All the books are free for downloading and passing along, being in the public domain.

Off topic, but still good reads. :wink:

 

[Stophel]

I don't know what's goin' on here... :idunno:

But, there are several books available on "how to build a flintlock rifle". They are available through most vendors of locks and barrels and hardware. The old standby is "The Art of Building a Pennsylvania Kentucky Rifle" from Dixon. While the order of the procedures is kind of random, it's all pretty much there.

As far as "picture books" on guns, there is "Rifles of Colonial America" volumes 1 and 2, and "Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in its Golden Age" by Joe Kindig. Both are available for sale again, if you wish to own them. Kindig's book should be readily available on an interlibrary loan. RCA.... not so much. There are a slew of books by James B. Whisker, most of which are now out of print, but you might find some of them with an interlibrary loan (just go to your library and ask them about it). :wink:

Again, vendors like Track of the Wolf, Log Cabin Shop, etc. will carry books like this (at least the ones that are still in print!)

I don't know where you live, but see if you can find a gunshow where there will be antique gun vendors. Browse around and handle them (ask for permission first!).

I build guns in a 12x12 shop (I have built them in my bedroom!!!). My only major power tools are a benchtop drill press and a bandsaw. No milling machine, no metal lathe... though that would be mighty nice... I do have an oxyacetylene torch set that is invaluable.

And yes, I do use emoticons. :wink:

 

[Mike Brooks]

BTW, I'm done.

Me too, you're on your own kid. :slap:

 

[jdkerstetter]

I just wonder how he missed calling me out on that shotgun blast of posts. Five posters called out and I'm left in the lurch. :idunno:

He even gave Mitch the credit for the book list I posted. If I had feelings they might be hurt... :shake:

I don't think I'm in his "lead box" as I can still read his profile. I know I'm in roundballs as I can't read his. Is there another way to know? Still new to this site.

Speaking of "Track of the Wolf"....while I find their photography very good, be careful using posted for sale guns for reference. Some I have seen lately are not good representations of proper architecture. SOME of their sample guns under for their "kits" are pretty good.

Enjoy, J.D.