Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders

[JN01]

I recently checked out the Sitting Fox website. They sell primarily kits, but also offer some finished guns.

I was looking at their 50 caliber smoothbore buck-and-ball gun, which is availiable finished.

Does anyone have any experience with Sitting Fox, particularly the quality of workmanship on finished guns?

For the price, I'd not expect Herschel House or Mark Silver work, but I don't want sloppy inletting/poor wood to metal fit either (which is what I'm afraid I'd produce if I attempted a kit myself).

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I think that the best "bang" for the buck is to get a Chambers kit(the best in quality and authenticity) of your choice and have a pro put it togethter either in the white or finish it without any carving or engraving.

I base this opinion by having seen and handled some of the cheaper finished guns and kits. I word it this way so I am not badmouthing any specific maker or kit but to focus on what I do think is the best way to go.

There are a couple of great builders on this board that will do this kind of work for you.
Mike Brooks is one that comes immediately to mind.

 

[tg]

I have not heard any bad reports about this maker, but in general the "you get what you pay for" usually holds true, you just have to know what level of quailty or authenticity if that is an issue, you will accept and make the best informed choice you can.


not meanimng to get to far off topic but

"I was looking at their 50 caliber smoothbore buck-and-ball gun"

that is an interesting choice in bore sizes for buck and ball was it yours or just something they offer as an option?

 

Jacob,
I don't know much about the "sitting fox" line up but question the 50 caliber. If I recollect correctly, 54 caliber is the smallest caliber allowed in NMLRA smooth bore matches. If competition is in your future you might want to give that some consideration.
Mark

 

[No Deer]

I have a 20 french fusil fin from Sitting Fox. I bought the kit from him and he put it together for me. It is a great shooter. I am very pleased with the level of workmanship on the gun. I have seen other guns from him, and have heard from others that have guns from him, and all are very satisfied.
Ray is a good guy to work with also.

I don't think that you will be disappointed if you get one from him.

 

[Teach]

That's what I've been wating to hear. I've been watching his website, thinkin' those prices are too good too be true.
There are a couple of rifles that I'm MORE interested in.
Cheers Teach

 

I am glad someone finally answered your question. This thread is typical it seems--a bunch of folks putting in their two bits without addressing the question--I am guilty, too. I just want to add that--without dissing any of the fine builders here or elsewhere--there are numerous fine builders out there that make excellent guns for a cheap price. Many are not in it for a living. Skill is skill no matter whether or not someone is a "big name" or charges alot of money--"you get what you pay for" is not an absolute. I know several builders that turn out very fine guns for very little over cost of materials. They mostly make guns for friends, but do take on orders from word-of-mouth customers. Most have more work than they can handle and many satisfied customers--they would not screw their friends. It is my impression that these type builders are pretty common and a check of local muzzleloading clubs or reenactor groups will usually turn up one or two. I am not trying to put any of you professional builders out of business, just pointing out that there are alternatives for those that cannot afford a $2500--or even $1500 gun besides Pedersoli or Traditions, etc...I was in that position when I got into MLing and was fortunate enough to meet a local builder that was willing to teach me how to make my own...No one ever heard of this guy outside of Oklahoma probably, but he built the prettiest mountain rifles I ever saw. There is an aquaintence of mine in Arkansas that builds first class rifles and trade guns for practically no profit--he is a school teacher. My MLing buddy here in Lousyanna has been building guns for many years and you'd be hard pressed to find a local buckskinner without at least one of his rifles--I own three. One of them I bought for cost of parts only as he needed cash to build another one. His skills are first class. He is retired and builds for fun. There are alot of ways to skin this cat....

 

[Mike Brooks]

Good point Mike. I used to build guns for a couple hundred bucks over the cost of parts. I did that for years while I honed my skills. There are alot of guys that do that, I'd suggest seeing some of their finished product before you jump on though. If you find the right guy that's at the right stage with his skills you can get one helluva good gun for not much money. Trouble is, once they get good and the word gets out their prices rise rapidly or their wait time stretches out for many years.

 

That is so true. I am responsible for my LA buddy raising his prices--I told him once too often that he wasn't charging enough! He is still a bargain, but the days of $400&$500 guns are over--heck, parts cost more than that now. He comes from a cash-poor blue collar background, never had much himself and doesn't ask much of others. He is a rare gem. He has given away several guns to friends that could not even afford his low price...

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Maybe I should not have said have a "pro" put it together but rather someone who is "pro"ficient.

Skill is skill but quality of parts and workmanship is subjective to personal opinion. These types of queries draw those personal opinions.

And after all these further "two bits" there still remains only one post that directly addresses the quality of a finished Sitting Fox gun. :grin:

 

true enough--most builders draw from the same pool of parts [a select few make thier own parts], such as well known makes of locks, barrels, etc., wood is available from several known sources, castings from mail order houses, etc....the selection is better than ever and quality is generally high. High quality kits such as Chambers, take alot of the old work [and skills] out of the equation for many. I know several "no-name" builders whose skills in assembly are first rate--a perfect wood to metal fit is perfect no matter whether done by a name builder or an "amateur". My LA buddy does as fine a job of inlaying [as in patchboxes, etc] into wood as I have ever seen, for example--you can't get better for any money--but you can pay ALOT more for the same level of skill...There is alot of market value in name brands or name builders--no taking that away--but it is possible to get a fine gun for little money if you shop around the backwoods clubs and rondies...I met my Okla mentor at a MLing shoot, met my Ark builder friend at a rondy, met my LA builder buddy at a historic site event. I have handled alot of guns and I would be proud to own any of theirs. I built my first rifle for $300 parts [double that now], $25 "tuition" and some outlay for a few hand tools I needed. I wouldn't take $2000 for it [and it probably ain't worth that much anyway :wink: ]. They're gonna have to bury it with me . The first gun I bought from the LA maker cost me $600 and it was not a kit gun by any means--good lock, a custom made barrel [a .58 Green River turned down on a lathe to oct-rd and bored out to a 20 gauge]a custom stock carved out of a chunk of stump walnut with fine curl, quality brass hardware and a hand forged trigger. Stupidly I sold it for $650 to a friend who wanted it more than me. The second gun I bought from the LA maker was $400--and was a carved .40 long rifle of the Schwietzer style. Again, a steal. I still have that one, but am about to give it to my son. Then I commisioned him to make me a "boys sized" .32 Tenn squirrel rifle--by this time I had convinced him to charge more--I got a fine little rifle with small Siler lock, Longhammock barrel, pretty tiger maple stock, iron furniture--all for $700. My last rifle was a set of parts I bought that had a nice Getz .54 barrel, partly precarved stock, Chambers germanic lock, and fine brass hardware--I was going to assemble it, but my arthritus was acting up--he put it together for me, in the Dickert style, including carving, and said he'd take no money from me!!! So I bought him a bunch of stuff I knew he wanted 'as payment' such as both volumes of the RCA books, a CSA officers sword for reenactments, and a Colt repro cap/ball pistol...he thought that was too much and gave the pistol to his son!

 

[Mike Brooks]

I quit selling guns on the cheap when they were reselling for $1500 more than I charged for them... :youcrazy:

 

[JN01]

Thanks for all the replies thus far.

First off, the "buck and ball" title for the gun I'm looking at is what Sitting Fox calls it. I'm not looking to compete with it, I've just been having a hankerin' for a plain smoothie- 50 caliber so I can use the same balls as my Glen Jones Lancaster rifle.

I agree that you often get what you pay for, but also know that there are occasionally decent bargains out there.

Like I said, I don't expect the finest gun ever built for $900, but just want competent workmanship.

I guess I mainly was fishing to see if there were any horror stories about them (like some other well known makers) before I investigated further.

I have considered the Chambers kits, but then you are talking about around $900 for the kit itself plus whatever a maker would charge to assemble it. No doubt, well worth the money (I've handled their PA Fowler at Friendship and it is sweet), but I'm not sure how much more cash I can afford to put into the project. I've been real tempted to try to put one together myself (I make most of my own gear myself; horns, leather work, hand sewn clothes, etc) but am really afraid of turning $900 worth of parts into a $300 gun.

I'd really like to see an example of Sitting Fox's work in person, but in the mean while if anyone could post some close up photos that would be great.

 

I quit selling guns on the cheap when they were reselling for $1500 more than I charged for them... :youcrazy:

I understand. My LA buddy started reevaluating his prices when a local doctor saw the very nice Virginia rifle over his mantle that my buddy had made for himself and offered him $2000 for it cash on the barrel head. It was a steal at that price, but it was the most he'd ever been offered for a gun...he sold it, much to my chagrin, it was a beaut and I enjoyed fondling it when I was at his house! In fact he sells or gives away everything he makes, and he has made probably in the hundreds now--except an old poorboy Tenn .45 rifle that is his personal deer rifle--he won't part with it for love or money!