Shotgun killability ?

[mnbearbaiter]

I had a friend of mine make me a jug choked 12ga for turkey hunting! This gun was built percussion style, using musket caps! Weve done a fair amount of messing around with it, and heres the load that produced the best pattern...70gr ffg Triple7, .125 op card, .500 lubed fiber wad, 2oz buffered #5 fiocchi golden pheasant nickel plated shot that i stole from loaded ammo, .030 os card! At 40yds every pellet is within a 30'' circle with 120 or so inside a 10'' circle around the point of aim! This gun was designed in an effort to rival a popular in*&%^ shotgun design out theres claims and bring them to reality or debunk them :wink: First off, this load is no where near the go to load! A few of the concerns i have are... im guessing this load is goin too slow to kill a turkey effectively, eventhough Triple7 is 15% hotter than BP! The load was shot at a fresh sheet of heavy duty cardboard at 40yds and it penetrated it, but should i try a few crude penetration tests to try and emulate a turkeys head? Maybe fill a pop can with hamburger meat, or shoot at an actual turkey neck from the butcher, something like that at 40yds? Or should i try trickling up the powder charge until pattern poops out and see how high i can get it! With the Triple7 conversion ratio and a shot charge of 1 1/2-2oz what would be a good killing powder charge, 80gr, 90gr...? Any help would be great :hatsoff:

 

[Skychief]

I like your idea of filling up a can with hamburger as a test medium. :haha:

You HAVE to try it!

Skychief.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I know its kinda silly to alot of folks, but believe it or not i test all kinds of loads! I made an elk tester with tight woven carpet, plywood, and a watermelon behind it to simulate the side of an elk and we shot prb's into it/through it :thumbsup: Piece of mind i guess!!!

 

[Moose_Owner]

I would be very interested in seeing what kind of velocities you are getting with that load. I would tend to agree that you may have some lethality issues due to low velocities.

Personally, I would back off the shot charge from 2 ounces down to something closer to 1 1/4 ounces. If you can maintain decent pattern densities, you should have a lethal load at 40 yards. I have used Triple 7 a couple of times with the chronograph. Based the triple 7 loads which I have tested, a 75 grain charge of triple 7 with 1 1/4 ounces of shot should produce velocities of about 1150 fps. That should be adequate for turkeys at 40 yards.

Good luck.

 

[kbuck]

The old Dixie gunworks catalog had a section about shot velocities where they said they believed that if your shot could penetrate a common tin can at whatever distance you wanted to shoot, then it was powerful enough to kill any small game.

 

[paulvallandigham]

By all means, if you don't know the capability of your shotgun, do comparison penetration testing!

Use a Steel- not aluminum-- can , such as found in juice cans, or tuna(or other fish) cans, If your load can penetrate both sides of these cans, its good to kill a turkey at that distance.


A tight pattern, with a tighter inner core pattern insure your chances of making a center hit on the turkey's neck and head, with multiple hits to the Central Nervous System. There are sample targets on the internet of the Turkey showing these core areas, which you can down load and print for free, BTW.

:hatsoff:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Folks,

While it may be fun to try different mediums, and duplication of a big game animal may be tough to keep costs down, in this case why not buy a big chicken, and hang it downrange, and take a shot at it? Set the chicken up with one of those beer can cookers, and include the beer can, or simply stuff a full can of beer inside to approximate internal organ density and let fly. If the pellets go through the chest and penetrate the can, or beyond, the load should be good for a turkey's head. :thumbsup:


Then cook and eat the chicken. :grin:

LD

 

[Mike Brooks]

Too light with the powder.
My load with a jugged choked 12 is 2 oz shot and 140grs. of REAL Black powder.
I believe T7 to be too hot for good shotgun patterns, it pushes too hard too fast, something like real black powder is alot slower and won't blow your pattern.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

The same guy who made this gun uses Triple7 exclusively in all of his rifles and shotguns anymore due to its availability here vs real bp :v Hes won his trap league with his SxS shooting Triple7 for years, and even though its a totally different animal than bp, the only difference he notices besides easier cleanup is the ignition timing! True it is a little faster, and a shotgunner used to shooting good 'ol bp may have to adjust his lead to get on target due to the velocity increase, its still a viable powder for all muzzleloading needs! Ive personally used it in my 54cal pistol with great results! Back to my situation...i do agree that i need to up my powder charge to 80-100gr, and drop my load down 1/4-1/2oz!

 

[Tony Logan]

As far as turkey load testing, makes me wonder if any live domestic turkey are available in your area. It would be a cool way to get your Christmas turkey and an autopsy would answer your question.

 

[roundball]

No need to go through all sorts if trials with hamburger, chickens, etc.
Years ago MLF member DaveK put me onto using heavy metal tuna cans (soup cans work as well) as a means of penetration testing different loads, different shot size, at different distances.

I've now taken enough game now to know that the tuna can/soup can test is 100% on the money...includes one long beard at 40yds with a load of #6's.
Plus, the added benefit of using a tuna can or soup can is that when laying on their side you only see the small 3"-3.5" diameter bottom as a target, a pretty convenient target representation of a turkey head/neck, a squirrel, etc.
I keep a box in the garage and after the cans go through the dishwasher, into the box they go...here are some examples:

.62cal Jug Choked Smoothbore
40yd Turkey Load #6s

.62cal(.20ga) Jug Choked Smoothbore
30yd Small game load #5s

.54cal(.28ga) Smoothbore
25yd Small Game Load of #5s

 

[BillinOregon]

Roundball, that's a great idea.

 

[roundball]

Works really well and is so simple and easy to do.

For example, in a cylinder bore, we're always wanting a tighter pattern at distance so you switch up to 7.5s to fill in a pattern better, then run the tests in 5 yard increments such as 20, 25, 30, 35, 40.
In this example you'll quickly find the pattern is more dense but you can't use 7.5s on game as far out as you could use 6's or 5s...they won't penetrate as far out as the heavier 6s or 5s.

So for the constant juggling act of powder charge, shot pellet size, shot charge size, and distance...the can test is a simple proven way to quickly find that best trade-off combination for the game you're after.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Love it :thumbsup:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

But you don't get to eat the target after testing...., Oh wait, you get to eat the target before testing, and since a standard steel can is a steel can, whether it has soup or pie filling, I think I can come up with some targets! :grin: MMMMM Boysenberry....,

LD

 

[roundball]

"...a standard steel can is a steel can, whether it has soup or pie filling..."

Actually, that's not quite the case...while I'm sure there are SOME others besides tuna and soup cans with the exact same wall and bottom thickness & strength of course, there are scores and scores of different steel cans used in the food industry and as such, there are many variances in the the wall & bottom thicknesses & strength depending on the packaged product.

It just happens that the thickness & strength of tuna and soup type cans that we've used so far seem to be a good relative test medium...if somebody wants to use different types of steel cans, have at it...I just can't speak from experience about any others beyond the proven two types mentioned above and I'm not into speculation and theory.