Shot Pouches

[Cleburne]

What are the differences between the English and Irish style shot pouches? Is one superior in function over the other, or is it strictly a matter of personal preference?

What are my other options? I've seen leather shot "flasks" advertised that appear to hang off the shoulder in an upside down position.

I recently purchased a S x S caplock from the classifides and would like to be properly set up to take it afield.

Any info will be appreciated.

Cleburne

 

[Stumpkiller]

English style is a teeter-tooter piece that raises & lowers a pair of plates to measure & dispense shot. The Irish style has a removable scoop style measure. I use an Irish style, but don't see that it is better or worse. Two thoughts: you can't lose the removable part in an English style but the Irish style doesn't force you to wiggle around to dispense the charge.

Irish head with flask

 

[paulvallandigham]

I prefer the Irish style fittings. The spring that comes on the "scoop " is strong enough to hold the scoop in the measure during normal hunting activities. I don't see how it can be lost if it was put back in place correctly.

I am not thrilled with the English style measure. You have NO flexibility or adjustment available for the shot load you pour from it. The Irish measure has a small screw that can be backed out to allow some measure of adjustment.

You might as well make a separate shot measure out of wood, antler, horn, etc. and just pour the shot into the measure from the pouch, using a normal stopper to keep the mouth of the pouch closed.

All such types of shot measures and pouches are Historically correct, BTW.

 

[Billnpatti]

Stumpkiller pertty well covered the description of each type of shot pouch as well as the flask. My preference is the Irish style but you do have to be careful to make sure the measure snaps back in place after using it or you may loose it. Still, it is my favorite. Powder flasks are a real no-no :nono: . You should never load your powder directly from a flask for fear of the powder igniting from some spark left in the bore of your gun. That could cost you your life. I prefer to use a horn and powder measure no matter which of my muzzleloaders I am using.

That's my hunble opinion, anyway. The advise is free and worth every penny.

 

[Dave K]

Now, I prefer the English style. Like has been said, the chance of loosing the seperate head that am Irish head has, just doesn't exist. As far as adjusting them, it is really easy for me. Measure the inside of the spout of an English head and go to a hobby shop or hardware store. They usually carry brass tubing. Take your head or measurement and see what tubing is a snug inside fit. Then cut that to various lengths to get the amount of shot you want your shot pouch to throw. It is real easy once you figure it out. Place this sleeve between the 2 gates and it will not fall out, but give you an accurate amount everytime. As far as the shot snake over the shoulder, I have one, used it once and didn't like it. It seemed to be heavy on my shoulder, hampered my swing and the head seemed to want to be in the way of the gun, as far as scratching it. I prefer the pouch in my pocket. I do use a powder flask. Pour you powder into a small container and then down the barrel.Or you can premeasure powder from the flask into little containers, when there is a lull in the action. Quick and easy.

 

[paulvallandigham]

the secret to using the Irish shot bag that is attached to the shoulder strap, and hangs over your shoulder is NOT TO FILL IT UP so much with shot. :v Everyone wants to fill the thing up to the max, until they have to carry all that shot around for half a day or so. :cursing: :shocked2: :hmm: When is the last time you fired more than a half pound of shot in the hunting field on a single day, other than when hunting dove??? Bag limits control how much shooting you will do, unless you are a terrible shot, and the birds just keep flying over head begging for you to shoot them. :rotf:

When I dove hunt, I take extra ammo, or in this case, a bottle( empty, plastic " Lipton Instant tea- with the wide mouth) of shot in my bucket seat, along with extra powder, and wads. The doves go back to the car in the bucket when I am through for the day.

I have two Irish measures. One is on a home made shot bag I made years ago for use with my DB shotgun. The bag is too large, and carries too much shot. I intend to resew the seams to narrow the bag, considerably, and thereby reduce the amount of shot it can hold to no more than one pound. Right now its the size of a small pumpkin.

The second came attached to an expensive hunting pouch, and both were a gift. I would not have chosen such a large hunting pouch, nor this heavy, long, shot pouch, myself. However, being a gift, I deal with the added weight by not putting more than 1/2 pound( 3500 grains) of shot in the shot bag.

As for clipping the scoop in place, there is a wide NOTCH in the side of the measure into which the wide spring catch on the scoop fits. Its next to impossible to put the scoop into the pipe of the measure without aligning the spring in that notch. Godzilla can do it, of course, and Godzilla will be the one who looses the scoop.

There is Nothing stopping anyone from attaching a long chain, or thong to the handle of the scoop to keep it from being Lost. :shocked2: :blah: :hatsoff:

If you wear the bag over the other shoulder, the measure won't be interfering with mounting the gun, or scratching the stock.

 

[Dave K]

Only a half pound of shot is all you carry or want to carry? :rotf: You need a better place to hunt or find a way to find more game. In my 14ga. that is only 8 shots. With that amount of shot, I wouldn't even bother with a pouch or snake, I would just scoop a handful of shot and put it in my pocket! I was just answering the original posters question and anyone mileage may vary with what works for them. In the dove field, I carry as much shooting materials as my cartridge friends and that is at least 40 shots worth at 1oz. a shot, you can do the math. Never ran out yet, but I came there to shoot and not watch. :surrender: I must live a wasteful area, I never saw any shotgun shooter or hunter go in the field with only 8 shots available to them.

 

[Darkgael]

Dave:

I never saw any shotgun shooter or hunter go in the field with only 8 shots available to them.

Well, here's one. It's great that you are apparently in an area where game is plentiful. When hunting upland in my part of Pennsylvania (100K+ acres of State game land), the average grouse sighting is about one an hour. And that's with a dog that knows what it's doing. There are a number of places that I hunt because I know that there are birds but that one an hour always seems to be about right.
I have never had the opportunity to take more than eight shots at grouse in an entire day in the field. Lotsa walking per bird.
Consequently, to refer to the post and to pouches, I carry a little homemade cloth pouch (made from canvas and a PVC plumbing fitting and a cap which is cut to hold 1 1/8oz of #6 shot.) It resembles a powder flask, though smaller and, of course, flexible. It's all I have ever needed.
Pete

 

[Cleburne]

Thanks to each of you for taking the time to share your knowledge. It seems the majority favor the Irish. I'll give it a try. :thumbsup:

Cleburne

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Daily bag limit on pheasants is 2 birds. Rabbits run about 4 a day, some years its 5. All the rabbits seem to live in the city, not where I can hunt them, so if I get a shot at a rabbits, its a good day. We don't have grouse here, or quail. If you find quail in Illinois, you won't find pheasants. Its been years since I looked up the daily bag limit on quail, but its about 5 birds a day.

The only place where we can hunt and kill more birds a day is on hunting preserves, where you pay for the birds put out for you to hunt. And,you usually are also charged from Over killed birds you might flush during a hunt. Those are birds release but not killed, or wild birds that are living on the property.

Only dove season- the month of September, basically-- affords more shooting, a daily bag limit of 15 birds. Once the first cold front comes through Illinois, however, the dove season is over, at least in the northern half of the state.

So, I don't feel handicapped at all taking only enough shot for 8 shots when bird hunting. I used to carry a vest full of shotgun shells with my modern shotgun but more recently just carried the 3 in the gun, plus a couple of extras in a pocket. I think I have only "borrowed " a shell once since I began doing that. And, then, I didn't have a chance to use it before getting back to my car. I gave the shell back to the man who loaned it to me, and loaded up my gun and pocket with another 5 shells. I think our party got one more shot at a bird that morning, after hunting two more fields, but I didn't take the shot.

I guess that qualifies as poor hunting to some of you.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Powder flasks are a real no-no :nono: . You should never load your powder directly from a flask for fear of the powder igniting from some spark left in the bore of your gun. That could cost you your life.

Good point. Not shown in the image of my flask is the 82 gr (3 dram) brass powder measure that hangs from the cord.

NEVER load directly from a horn or flask.

 

[Dave K]

Again I was addressing the original poster. But, I always have available to me, more than I will probably use. I don't harvest everything I shoot at, because sometimes even I miss. :wink: Also, since there have been a few that have seen me miss, it is prudent and a good sportsman, to be able to humanely dispatch, any game that do not immediately go to bag. I don't go fishing with only one worm or even one hook. I don't go squirrel hunting with only the amount ammo to take the limit and the same with any game I hunt and I can't remember ever hunting till I had my limit. I hunt to be out there hunting. The reason to carrying extra ammo, is to be humane. To miss any shot, does not mean you are a poor shot, it just says you are honest and you missed. But, what if you wound one, please have the ability to finish the job. If hauling more powder and lead then you need is a hardship for you, maybe a trip to spa or whatever should be considered to pack that extra pound of componets. I don't have grouse where I live and I have never hunted at a hunting preserve. I will though leave home with more ammo than I will probably use, I will carry more water than I drink on that day and the vehicle I drive, will also have more gas in it, than I need to get back home. Because of my ethics to hunt humanely, I have never used the last shot in my possession to shoot at game. What if I wound it and I have nothing to humanely finish the job? As an avid bowhunter, I NEVER leave home with just one arrow either, I think that is very unethical, even though I am only hunting one deer. The last shot stays in the pouch or quiver for humane reasons. This is common sense and that is what I origianally posted to share. It was not to say how my shooting abilities are, it was to share what I do when I hunt.

 

Cleburne,
Just my 2 cents. I like the Irish shot/powder head. On my fowler bag I have one mounted to the bottom of the flap, which is hollow and used as a shopt pouch. This keeps my shot handy and my flap closed.
Mark

 

[hanshi]

Good post. I think it's a "no brainer" to always be prepared for what might occur. I've never run out of ammo while hunting, not even squirrel hunting. I normally carry pre-measured charges in the field; enough of them so I won't run dry. In the excitement of chasing game, it's safer than using loose powder.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have only been pheasant hunting ONCE when I fired more than 8 shots in one day. AND, even on that day, I was back at the car, traveling to one field after another, with plenty of time to reload the shot pouch with more shot, and to add more wads and cleaning patches to my hunting pouch, had I been shooting BP then.


For too many years I carried way too much stuff into the field and back again, all, like you, on the thought that I would rather have it, and NOT NEED IT, then to need it and NOT HAVE IT. As my back problems limit the amount of walking and carrying I can do, I have been forced to think what I actually need in the field for a half day, or less, hunt.

What I do works for me. I am not telling anyone what THEY SHOULD DO. If you want to carry 200 lbs. of stuff in a back pack with you when hunting dove, or grouse, have at it with my blessing. I comment merely to suggest that there are other, simpler ways, to deal with bulky equipment or heavy bags, and you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water! :shocked2: :youcrazy: :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[Dave K]

There are many times I wonder why I bother to answer a posters questions. There is always one person who has insecurity issues and needs to be heard that their way is the only way and anyone elses has to be discussed as wrong. Usually this person has seems to think if the post is long enough, it becomes all the more believeable. Oh, I didn't say 200 lbs. of gear, I said 1 lb. and is this driving around to the next field stuff, road hunting? Of course you don't need more than 8 shots on you while you are driving around. I grab my hunting vest or my shooting bag and it is all in there, not to be left in someones wheels, just as a hunter from way back when would have hunted.

But, to put this back on course and take it away from the "why my way is better than your way". The answer I will still give is that I personally prefer Engish heads, because they work for me. Shot snakes have a head on them that subjects the stock to getting scratched and I value my gun more than the snake. At least that was my experience the one day I used it. Carry the proper size and amount of ammo for your needs and respect the game. This works for me, because I do it, I didn't read or have some Jim-Bob tell me that it works for him therefore it works for me, because he says so.

It is good that people ask what is used and glean information from them. Then go out and try it. What someone swears is the only way, may just have you swearing about that and see why some people do something different. Obviously, differnet heads and flask styles were made and have been continued to be made, because there are users that find they work best for them.

Now if I could just make this post real long to read as it is getting late and it could put some to sleep. :surrender:

 

[hanshi]

I don't load myself down in the woods with a lot of stuff but I don't scrimp on ammo. I leave a good bit of stuff in the truck but carry the ammo with me. I'll short myself with a lot of things but not ammo.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

... and is this driving around to the next field stuff, road hunting? Of course you don't need more than 8 shots on you while you are driving around.

I take it you have never hunted more than one location in any particular day. I'm happy for you that you have access to such expansive hunting grounds. Otherwise, one might think you were being deliberately insulting to those whose hunting locations can be of limited size and wide spacing, and who can restock consumables after driving to the next field.

Regards,
Joel
whose hunting spots often can be hunted over in much less than a day.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am neither insecure, or needing to be heard, and I apologize if my use of Hyperbola offends you. I responded to your post because I thought your reasons for liking the English measure were dishonest, and silly. I don't know why you can't just say that you began using an English measure, and you like it because you used it first. " Cause " is often the best answer to " Why?" and is the only answer required in a free society, Dave. The other statements you made were an attempt to find an excuse that was more palatable to the members.

I find filling an Irish measure is a whole lot easier to do than the English variety- and I have used both!

Paul

 

[Dave K]

My reason for using an Engish head dishonet! That is fighting words. Apparently you need to look in a mirror if you are looking for that person. Paul, sometimes, just suck it up and realize that there are others who do things that work for them and just because you have done something or know someone who does, does not make it the only way. Try to help people without belittleing others. Even you may learn something. My answer to the first poster remains. I like what I use for the reasons I have posted. Never lost an Irish head yet, because I don't care for them. It is apparent and that is OK, that some people like them. Again, that is why they are still being made. Ever see how many original shot pouches are missing their original Irish head? Many are, maybe because the previous user is not as good as you in securing them. For me it is way to simple to depress the lever on my English head, dispense the shot and there is nothing that needs to be replaced or dropped and lost. I find for me it is accurate and convenient, what is wrong with that for me? Is your mission in life to put down everything I say on this board? Did someone appoint you to higher level of being? Or does puffery with long winded posts work that well? Just follow the chain of posts. I made my first post and you make it your mission to dispute it, with your next post. Try to play nice.

Joel, yes I have hunted more than one spot in a day, though very rarely. It is such a PIA to walk several miles and find that you should be somewhere else. By the time you get back to the truck,much of the day or yourself is spent. Can't say though I left my equip. in the truck at least on purpose. Actually that post was not really directed to the masses, just to the ah other poster, who thinks anyone else who posts is not being truthful. Sorry, if I offended you. :surrender: