Sharps carbine loading question

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wb78963

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Hello out there,
Has anyone tried American Pioneer Powder in any of its forms in a Sharps carbine using a paper cartridge ?
I am trying to use it because it makes it easy using as cast un-lubricated bullets and the great ease of cleaning..
Any information will be appreciated.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
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wb78963

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So far after only about 14 shots to test I am very pleased with the APP and a 420 (?) grain bullet combination. The bullet is cast in a mould from Accurate Molds in Utah and is pure lead..
Accuracy looks good but the best part is APP by any name is so easy to clean. The fouling is consecutive not cumulative so the bore is more or less one shot dirty and no lube is needed. I have been shooting as cast bullets in my Sharps and also in an 1860 Army with no lubricant and no leading.
I am not giving up on real honest to goodness black Gunpowder, but APP is fun to play with and at $10.50 a pound how can I go wrong?
Yr' Obt' Svt'
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Erwan

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So far after only about 14 shots to test I am very pleased with the APP and a 420 (?) grain bullet combination. The bullet is cast in a mould from Accurate Molds in Utah and is pure lead..
Accuracy looks good but the best part is APP by any name is so easy to clean. The fouling is consecutive not cumulative so the bore is more or less one shot dirty and no lube is needed. I have been shooting as cast bullets in my Sharps and also in an 1860 Army with no lubricant and no leading.
I am not giving up on real honest to goodness black Gunpowder, but APP is fun to play with and at $10.50 a pound how can I go wrong?
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
Can you tell what is the quality of the ignition with Sharps paper cartridges, is it (the APP) sensitive enough for a correct ignition ?...
 

wb78963

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Can you tell what is the quality of the ignition with Sharps paper cartridges, is it (the APP) sensitive enough for a correct ignition ?...
It would appear so. The only FTF I have had is bcause of some ancient RWS caps that just do not pop.
I am using home rolled non nitrated paper tubes with a curling paper flat base. The tube length with this bullet puts the base paper right at the breech block. Surprisingly so far two or three successful ignitions with CCI General purpose caps have been noted.
The powder is held against the base paper with filler right to the bullet base.
The lovely part of using APP powders is no lube is needed. The fouling acts as a lube.
As I learn more I will post successes and failures.
This is a learning curve for me because usually the cartridge is a Hahn machine Works tube and a
Moose Mould ring tail bullet. with real Gunpowder FFg or FFFg depending on the can I grab.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
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Erwan

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Thanks for the answer. ;)
I can't get that kind of powder, but, for me, this is interesting to know how it works with this propellant that is not a real BP...
I use only musket caps with four vanes RWS and it works well with thin tissue paper for the bottom.
The cartridges are either linen or nitrated wrapping paper and most often nitrated linen. The powder is Swiss No. 2 (FFFg), it is regular and precise at 50 and 100 meters with 55 or 60 grains .
Note: I have to grease the bullets before shooting and pass a light dry patch between two shots to keep a perfect accuracy...
You can see How I do here : IAB Sharps Gardone
 

sportster73hp

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Thanks for the answer. ;)
I can't get that kind of powder, but, for me, this is interesting to know how it works with this propellant that is not a real BP...
I use only musket caps with four vanes RWS and it works well with thin tissue paper for the bottom.
The cartridges are either linen or nitrated wrapping paper and most often nitrated linen. The powder is Swiss No. 2 (FFFg), it is regular and precise at 50 and 100 meters with 55 or 60 grains .
Note: I have to grease the bullets before shooting and pass a light dry patch between two shots to keep a perfect accuracy...
You can see How I do here : IAB Sharps Gardone
What weight linen are you using? I have some on order for clothing.
 

wb78963

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I intend to use nitrated paper to make a flat base cartridge. Search for Duelist 1954 I use the method Mike uses for paper cartridges with a very thin paper base.It is best to make the tube a length that the base is touching the breech face is not cut by it.
For linen I have no idea and can't help you there but search the web..
. Right now my paper is cut from a grocery sack and is pretty strong, but usually there is a bit left in the chamber.
The length measurement Musket Matters gives a very clear explanation and you can use his method in metric just as easily.
isn't it fun reinventing a 162 year old wheel.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
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Erwan

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What weight linen are you using? I have some on order for clothing.
I don't have the weight of the linen (pure flax), but I have two kinds of it. For the first and the thickest, the caliper said 0.013" and 0.007" for the other. I mostly use the 0.013", nitrated with pure KNO³ and lightly coated with collodion (from the chemist's shop and solved almost like water) or very fine shellac (almost only alcohol in fact) after finishing the cartridge and before greasing: this tightens the mesh of the fabric with the collodion and closes the mesh stiffening the cartridge while avoiding the pollution of the powder by the grease and avoiding also the dust of powder to pass by the mesh...
Thickness:
epaisseur_lin.jpeg
 
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wb78963

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I don't have the weight of the linen (pure flax), but I have two kinds of it. For the first and the thickest, the caliper said 0.013" and 0.007" for the other. I mostly use the 0.013", nitrated with pure KNO³ and lightly coated with collodion (from the chemist's shop and solved almost like water) or very fine shellac (almost only alcohol in fact) after finishing the cartridge and before greasing: this tightens the mesh of the fabric with the collodion and closes the mesh stiffening the cartridge while avoiding the pollution of the powder by the grease and avoiding also the dust of powder to pass by the mesh...
Thickness:
good grief and gray train
I don't have the weight of the linen (pure flax), but I have two kinds of it. For the first and the thickest, the caliper said 0.013" and 0.007" for the other. I mostly use the 0.013", nitrated with pure KNO³ and lightly coated with collodion (from the chemist's shop and solved almost like water) or very fine shellac (almost only alcohol in fact) after finishing the cartridge and before greasing: this tightens the mesh of the fabric with the collodion and closes the mesh stiffening the cartridge while avoiding the pollution of the powder by the grease and avoiding also the dust of powder to pass by the mesh...
Thickness:
Good grief! and I thought home rolling paper tubes was a tedious project, but this takes the all time cake.

Fifteen more rounds went down range this afternoon using Black MZ with no ignition problems except for a couple of cap failures with some ancient RWS caps. The new RWS Caps gave 100% ignition.
My guess is the gun has fired almost 50 rounds and still is easy to open courtesy of the Hahn Machine Works improvement.
Good luck on your project I admire your perseverance.
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wb78963

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:)

I'm just trying to do something like that : MINT, ORIGINAL SHARPS .52 CAL COMBUSTIBLE LINEN CARTRIDGE — Horse Soldier , something a bit close of the real original Sharps linen cartridges... :)

At 100 yards it works correctly, not perfect but correctly.......
Mark Hubbs at Eras Gone Bullet Moulds has a good video on making the paper cartridge with a folded paper tail. You may get some clues on how to do the linen cartridge.
Good luck, and very very good shooting
You Held Center!
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