Seating the ball

Discussion in 'General Muzzleloading' started by Tb54, Nov 16, 2018.

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  1. Dec 26, 2018 #101

    azmntman

    azmntman

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    I cannot throw a super light weight ram rod hard enough to move or damage the ball myself. Heavy steel....ehhh maybe. I still dont think after I seat the ball its going any further down the barrel with a wooden or durlin ram rod bounced, thrown heaved etc. Maybe if ya smack it into a tree? Maybe if its solid steel and ya really really try. I would think the thing would be coming back outta the bore no matter what the material its made of if thrown bounced er what have you enough to further "seat" a PRB. It's a physics thing and I'm not into that science but I know I myself cannot throw a ramrod hard enough to surpass the seating I get with a good solid push down the last 6-8 inches of bore (and then I "lean" into it as well). Again, just MHO and I dont wanna argue or debate it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
  2. Dec 27, 2018 #102

    Spence10

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    I guess I'm missing your point, what is the alternative? What do you call a fusil if not a fusil?

    Spence
     
  3. Dec 27, 2018 #103

    Zonie

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    IMO, there are times it is better to keep our mouth shut rather than to correct someone else.

    For example, I was at the shooting range with one of my flintlock rifles. A man was walking past my shooting station with his, I'd guess, 6 year old son.
    He pointed at my gun and said to his son, "That's an old musket. The kind that was used when our country was made."

    I could have corrected him by saying in a knowing way, "NO. This is a rifle. This is NOT a musket. Muskets were military firearms and they were smoothbore's."

    Like I said, "I could have" but I didn't. I just smiled at them.

    Correcting him would have done nothing but make him look foolish in the eyes of his son. Correcting him really didn't matter either. He and his son were not interested in whether the gun was a musket or a rifle. The man was only interested in adding a little information to his sons knowledge and perhaps increase his sons interest in guns.

    I've seen other cases when this same sort of thing has happened but rather than just letting it ride some muzzleloading enthusiast got his backhair up and said, "NO. THAT IS NOT A XXXXXXX (Hawken, Lancaster, Brown Bess, take your choice.) IT IS A XXXXXXX !

    What did this really achieve to the person that was being corrected? Nothing except to convince him he was right about some muzzleloaders being obnoxious, pushy self proclaimed experts that are best to be avoided.

    Don't get me wrong. If the person really is asking for information then by all means, give it but, if the person doesn't give a hoot about the correctness it is often better to say nothing.

    At least, that's the thing I think tenngun was getting at.
     
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  4. Dec 27, 2018 #104

    tenngun

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    Well the public when they ask will say someting about ‘your musket’. So I tell them about it. ‘Well this is called a fusil de Chase, french for hunters gun.....”
    In fact if you do a web search for ‘fusil’ you won’t be taken to a page on trade and commoners guns for New France, but to pages on modren French Shotguns.
    I don’t correct tourist that ‘it’s not a musket it’s a fusil, musket means military arm....’. I don’t get my breech clot in a wad over ‘possibles bag,’instead I try to explain shooting bags and what when in them. If I have on my haversack, that I use as a possibles bag, meaning I keep my fire kit smokes and pipe, Arkansas stone, spoon, a tin of spices, tooth brush in. I explain how bags like that were used in the military for food, but’s its handy for odds and ends, while a shooter liked to keep just shooting gear in bags and horns. Then I show them what I got in there.
    Same if they ask about my musket when I have my SMR. In this case I point to other guns around and ask them if they see the brass, and noticethis gun doesn’t have brass on it, then talk about gun making traditions in the south. Show off the muzzle so they can see the rifling. I’m careful to never correct what they call it.
     
  5. Dec 27, 2018 #105

    tenngun

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    Infact some times I point out little things wrong on my guns, like the facts my FDC is on maple and not walnut, or the Germanic style lock on my SMR, while I tell them what is is, I never tell them it’s not a musket.
     
  6. Dec 27, 2018 #106

    Stumpkiller

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    Fusee, fowler, firelock, gun, smoothbore, shotgun. Lots of pseudonyms.
     
  7. Dec 27, 2018 #107

    Spence10

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    Well, yeah, for you and me, and tenngun, but what is the proper name for it which won't cause brain damage in the 'public'?

    I don't do my reenacting in public or for the public, so I am not familiar with this dumbing down concept.

    Spence
     
  8. Dec 27, 2018 #108

    Stumpkiller

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    I either go with smoothbore or rifle and let them try and keep up. ;-)
     
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  9. Dec 27, 2018 #109

    Spence10

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    Ah, so you are the one causing brain damage. The term 'smoothbore' was not used in the day, as far as I've ever found. Smooth bore, yes, Smoothbore, no.;)

    Spence
     
  10. Dec 27, 2018 #110

    Smokey Plainsman

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    And don’t fergit them pesky “smooth rifles” as it were!
     
  11. Dec 27, 2018 #111

    tenngun

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    When was the last time you were to a shambles (meat market) to buy your dinner? Have you ever been aboard a keel(ship). In the morning do you ever get the latest intelligences(news)Have you ever been feeling poorly(your sense of touch not working), or said Naked( defenseless) instead of nude? Has a store owner told you they would be with you shortly ( send a midget to help you)
    Language changes. What musket means to American English speaker is not what it ment to eighteenth century speakers,and that ment something different to seventeenth century speakers. I don’t mind conversing with people in modren English. I don’t mind my guns being called muskets, even though I haven’t owned a musket since the early eighties.
     
  12. Dec 27, 2018 #112

    Stumpkiller

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    Gives me ague just thinking about it.
     
  13. Dec 28, 2018 #113

    Zonie

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    Well, I'm glad to hear it is just ague and not Consumption. :eek:
     
  14. Dec 28, 2018 #114

    Ketchakah

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    We seem to have several conversations going. All interesting.

    I personally feel that its more about place and purpose. No i dont correct people as they walk by. However, if they ask, i will give them proper information to the time. "to the time" is the key here. As i generally focus on a specific time period, those are the terms i use. Especially when doing a historical demonstration for education. Then if someone asks further questions i can go into more detail.

    Those of us that are Natives see this a lot. And without going into detail, I can say that its the "keeping quiet" that has lead to all the misunderstandings today. Now we are trying to correct things that have become "common" and its near impossible.

    Its all about what you consider important i suppose.

    Now... Bouncing rods...
    I dont know how much a ball moves when the rod is bounced, and ive never done an inertia test on how much force is applied in the bounce. But we all know a sudden impact has an effect. Consider an impact wrench. We can hold the socket in our hand and feel it hammer away while not allowing it to turn. Yet it will turn a bolt that we cannot with all the static force our bodies can muster.

    I dont know about the dynamics, but... I DO know that when bounced, the rod will hit the ball dully several times before bouncing, and the sound changes as well. so there is something going on here.

    I dont really do it anymore, but i dont load as tight. Ive not really noticed any benefit, but others may have.
     
  15. Dec 28, 2018 #115

    Straekat

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    Most of the time, people asking what they consider a general question don't want to be encounter a person that does the "sponge" on them. A sponge soaks up liquids and when there's any pressure, it comes right back out.

    Unless you're talking to someone in the navy, or has been, the all encompassing word "gun" gets past the terminology and lets the conversation move along without "TMI."
     
  16. Dec 28, 2018 #116

    Canute Rex

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    Here's another take on bouncing the ramrod: Consistency detection.

    I bounce my ramrod on the ball, gently, after ramming it down. I do this by lifting it a specific distance and dropping it. Depending on how hard the ball is against the powder the ramrod will bounce more or less and the sound will change. Really, the sound is the tell. Hard to reproduce in print but it goes from a "bonk" to a "pank" when the ball is really seated. Let's just say the sound gets significantly sharper when the ball can't move. Since I don't have a NIST calibrated piezoelectric force sensor built into my hand, sound will have to do.
     
  17. Dec 28, 2018 #117

    Stumpkiller

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    No bounce for me. Wouldn't want to loosen the tip fitting. Just a solid push with the rammer held in my fingertips.
     
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  18. Dec 29, 2018 #118

    hanshi

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    I've tried out "the bounce" a few times and saw no benefits to it. I always seat the prb a few inches at a time and stop when I get that very slight "crunch" of prb landing on powder. I load tight but doubt that is ever an issue.
     
  19. Dec 30, 2018 #119

    rp77469

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    I got into the habit of bouncing the wooden ramrod decades ago. I do it with a quick flick of the wrist throwing the ramrod a few inches down the barrel, and quit when the ramrod bounces back in inch or so. Started doing it to make sure the ball was indeed seated on the powder. Several thousand rounds later, I have a good feel for just how well seated each shot will be by the bounce. Works for me. Almost 70 and can still usually hit briquettes, golf balls, pretzels, hanging from a string most of the time. Rifle groups better than I can hold. YMMV.
     
  20. Dec 30, 2018 #120

    Gowacky

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    Just how fer?
     

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