Rust In The Bore

[FishDFly]

Rust in the bore gets beat to death on a frequent basis along with the best protectant to stop it.

I often wonder if there is a difference in the steel used in T/C Lyman, Traditions, CVA, Pedersoli, and on. Some swear by hot to scalding water and others swear that it causes flash rust when it comes to cleaning.

Anyone see a difference is rust forming from one brand of rifle to another?

Is it a difference from U.S. steel to Italian steel?

I know there are differences in chemical make up of steel between the U.S. and Europe from working in the marine environment and cleaning marine vessels. Some steel from Europe is higher in nickle than U.S. steel.

Zonie posted a test of different protectants and the better ones are pretty well known and which ones to stay away from are known.

Is it the steel?

 

[Frontier's]

I use the hottest water that comes out of the faucet. The water gets changed multiple times, dry the bore and then flood it with alcohol. Then I use my favorite anti rust agent. Not hard, never had any rust issues.

I think the guys that have rust issues are the ones that say it takes them 5 minutes to clean their guns

 

[Bledfor Days]

I can make any barrel rust.

 

[FishDFly]

Yep.

Guess what I am asking is if, you clean a certain way all the time and do not deviate on cleaning or rust protectant, do you see one brand that is more prone to rusting than another brand?

 

[Okie Hog]

Makes no difference who makes the barrel, if not properly cleaned and preserved it will rust.

Makes no difference if the water is cold or hot so long as it's clean. Takes me about 15 minutes to clean and oil a conventional muzzleloader, that includes cleaning the nipple and running a bristled pipe cleaner through the flash channel. i use cold water, my muzzleloaders don't rust.

 

[bang]

Hot water evaporates faster. However most water will have some minerals in it. Regardless of temp you can use alcohol to help remove residuals. Dry patch multiple times then apply swab with oil and rdry swab prior to shooting to remove oil.
I use soapy water and find it helps to do a good swab after shooting and leave it real wet till I'm home then thoroughly clean. The water may evaporate but leaves a coating of soap.

 

[Marinekayak]

Wow I just posted this as part of a different thread. I disagree with frontiers post. I have a Traditions and a Pedersoli that i shoot and clean at the same time. I clean them both the same way and even putting a wet patch of modern oil down the bore of the traditions i do tend to get surface rust in the traditions a couple of days after cleaning and never a speck in the Pedersoli. FWIW i clean all my rifle “Marine” clean. I just asked in the post if maybe it was the steel

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks, that was I wondering about different gun makes.

I had an early T/C Renegade and it was prone to flash rusting with hot water. The GM barrels did not do it.

I quit the hot water, but that is not part of my wondering about steel.

 

[hawkeye2]

I haven't changed my cleaning techniques for as long as I can remember. I use hot tap water and Dawn, sometimes add 409, Mr. Clean or similar but very rarely. When I lived in town and used city water I often saw flash rust. I live back in the hills now and have a well and I do not get any flash rust. There are no farms or industry around so I don't have those contaminants. My water tests fine straight from the well though I do have sediment filters. Is it possible the chemicals added to the public water supply (fluoride is a Communist plot ) contribute to the rust?

 

[bud in pa]

I used to keep my barrel lubed with Lehigh Valley Lube and never had a rust problem.

 

[plmeek]

FishDFly and Marinekayak,

The difference you are seeing between the two rifles is more likely associated with the surface finish of the bore in the rifles than the differences in the steel alloy. Rusting is a chemical reaction and can be accelerated by activation sites such as sharp points and sharp ridges. Those that have tried to rust brown a barrel or lock plate that they have polished with a fine grit abrasive soon learn this. The rust/browning process will start much easier on a surface that was sanded with 220 grit paper that a surface that was sanded down to 600 grit or finer.

Also, once a surface starts pitting, even if they are small and shallow, it will be more prone to rusting than one that remains smooth and clean. Roughness in a bore can also trap fouling and make it more difficult to remove which in turn can contribute to more corrosion from the salts in the trapped fouling.

 

[Frontier's]

Wow I just posted this as part of a different thread. I disagree with frontiers post. I have a Traditions and a Pedersoli that i shoot and clean at the same time. I clean them both the same way and even putting a wet patch of modern oil down the bore of the traditions i do tend to get surface rust in the traditions a couple of days after cleaning and never a speck in the Pedersoli. FWIW i clean all my rifle “Marine” clean. I just asked in the post if maybe it was the steel

My rifles are traditions. You're not removing all the moisture, or your waiting to long to dry the bore. Try a shot of alcohol down the bore to remove moisture in the breech and swab the bore with a soaking wet patch of alcohol. Your modern oil isn't cutting it either from the sound of it.

 

[JeffG]

My regimen is clean after shooting. Soap water, rinse water, clean until patches are clean. Dry and apply oil. Then I clean 3 days after, 3 weeks after and 3 months after shooting. I apply good quality gun oil to the bore and parts. No rust.

 

[Carbon 6]

FishDFly and Marinekayak,

The difference you are seeing between the two rifles is more likely associated with the surface finish of the bore in the rifles than the differences in the steel alloy. Rusting is a chemical reaction and can be accelerated by activation sites such as sharp points and sharp ridges. Those that have tried to rust brown a barrel or lock plate that they have polished with a fine grit abrasive soon learn this. The rust/browning process will start much easier on a surface that was sanded with 220 grit paper that a surface that was sanded down to 600 grit or finer.

Also, once a surface starts pitting, even if they are small and shallow, it will be more prone to rusting than one that remains smooth and clean. Roughness in a bore can also trap fouling and make it more difficult to remove which in turn can contribute to more corrosion from the salts in the trapped fouling.

Bull's-eye.

 

[NorthFork]

I have different thoughts on the matter.

I don't think it's so much the steel as it is the water. Water is not the same everywhere. Some is chlorinated, some is not. Some is hard, some is soft. Some has iron or sulphur or who knows what in it. What is in the water may be the key as to flash rust or not.

I own or have owned Traditions, Pedersoli, Investarm, Colerain, T/C, Douglas, and Rice barrels and all have flash rusted with my water when hot. My water is full of minerals and chlorinated. A house I lived in years ago was chlorinated but had very little in the way of minerals. I don't remember much in the way of flash rust.

 

[Carbon 6]

Rusting is a chemical reaction

Yep, and it's a hard one to stop once it starts.

 

[Carbon 6]

Is it the steel?

To some degree the answer is yes.
I'll give you an example:
Stainless steel.

 

[Carbon 6]

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/7-things-to-know-about-flash-rust/2/6695

 

[Frontier's]

Im on well water and run a filter system under the house. None of that city folk chemical stuff.

 

[LawrenceA]

FishDFly and Marinekayak,

The difference you are seeing between the two rifles is more likely associated with the surface finish of the bore in the rifles than the differences in the steel alloy. Rusting is a chemical reaction and can be accelerated by activation sites such as sharp points and sharp ridges. Those that have tried to rust brown a barrel or lock plate that they have polished with a fine grit abrasive soon learn this. The rust/browning process will start much easier on a surface that was sanded with 220 grit paper that a surface that was sanded down to 600 grit or finer.

Also, once a surface starts pitting, even if they are small and shallow, it will be more prone to rusting than one that remains smooth and clean. Roughness in a bore can also trap fouling and make it more difficult to remove which in turn can contribute to more corrosion from the salts in the trapped fouling.

and on top of that the alloy can make a difference at least in theory. Iron is not prone to rust anywhere near as bad as steel. Of course when you look at other metals or inclusions as well as grain size these all make a theoretical difference.
Personally I have stopped using water and use Hornady One shot. I have found it to be excellent and that missed fouling converts to a white powdery substance in a few days.
I used to clean with water and do it again over the next 2 days to ensure no rust. Now I do it once and check in a few days. Slack aye?