Ram Rod Tips?

[Swampman]

I've been building guns since 1977. I'll get by some how.

 

[Roy]

I've been building guns since 1977. I'll get by some how.

and your point is?

 

[Zonie]

Mark asked a legitimate question about the effects of Linseed oil on epoxy when used to install a ramrod tip.
I think that many of the members have given him their opinion of the oil on the attachment.

Unfortunately, we seem to have been diverted into areas which are oriented towards personalities rather than dealing with the initial question.

May I suggest that if any more thoughts concerning oil and epoxy exist they should be posted however, if the new posts deal only with personal conflicts or disagreements that add nothing to the information sought it would be best to leave them unposted.
Thank You.

 

[Tman]

Forget where I read it.....old Foxfire book prob? That the oldtimers would soak their rammers in COAL OIL. If I remember correctly it was a mixture of coal and kerosine? The logig was that the oils helped the wood fibers slide against each other instead of snapping(or something like that). I still have the same rod on my rifle that I made in 94, got paranoid about broken rods living in a small town and ordered 6 blanks....5 of which I still have. I soaked my rod in oil for a few weeks as I was making my rifle.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Coal oil was made from a process using cannel coal and shale. The resulting oil was often used for lighting. There was no actual coal in the final product. I think kerosene would work as well or better for soaking ramrods--and would be easier to find nowadays.

 

[Swampman]

I read that same information myself. The problem I see with kerosene/coal oil is that it smells to high heaven. That's the reason I don't use Neet's Foot Oil on my leather, it smells like Kerosene. Low Odor Mineral Spirits might be a good idea. Coal Oil & Low Odor Mineral Spirits are good for burning in lanterns by the way. They don't stink or smoke.

 

[Birddog6]

Forget where I read it.....old Foxfire book prob? That the oldtimers would soak their rammers in COAL OIL.

However, they failed to mention the Ol Timers didn't even have coal oil or kerosene to soak them in, it wasn't discovered til ? 1867 or so, was not in production til 1877 something, then it was so scarce & limited nobody could get it Or afford it. By the time you could easily get it modern cartridges were in use, WWI was coming on, & the ML was left in the barn....

So what it really comes down to is those old timers were guys from the 60's & 70's, but it was 1960 & 1970 !!

 

[Swampman]

Historical accuracy isn't at issue here(hence the use of epoxy.)

These ramrods are for Thompson Center rifles.

Durability (with a traditional appearance)is what I'm looking for.

 

[Black Hand]

Historical accuracy isn't at issue .......(with a traditional appearance) is what I'm looking for.

A bit contradictory, don't you think?

 

[Swampman]

Not at all.

 

[pcrum]

I'm not a master gunbuilder by any means, but I've put together a few firearms.
FWIW, I've bedded modern barrels with epoxy, and made internal repairs on ML rifles with epoxy, such as building up the mortice behind a lock, tightening up a wobbly rammer thimble, or bedding the tang on an overly deep inlet. All of my guns have a linseed oil finish, due to personal preference. None of them have had any effect on the epoxy.
IMO you'll be fine Mark.
Also, when epoxying tips on rods, I usually get tham to fit as close to perfect as possible, using a sharp blade as a scraper, then I notch some shallow one sided groves around the shaved down part (think of a cleaning jag.) Then I epoxy the tip on, and after it's cured, pin it with a finishing brad and cut and file it smooth.
It works for me, and looks good.
Cheers,
Pat

P.S. I think linseed oil is one of my favorite aromas- is that weird?

 

[Black Hand]

I'm not a master gunbuilder by any means, but I've put together a few firearms.
FWIW, I've bedded modern barrels with epoxy, and made internal repairs on ML rifles with epoxy, such as building up the mortice behind a lock, tightening up a wobbly rammer thimble, or bedding the tang on an overly deep inlet. All of my guns have a linseed oil finish, due to personal preference. None of them have had any effect on the epoxy.
IMO you'll be fine Mark.

Linseed oil over epoxy is completely different from epoxy over linseed oil.....

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Coal oil was invented in 1850. I doubt that anyone soaked a ramrod in it until much, much later.

 

[Swampman]

From an NMLRA article dated 1999.....

"Ramrods were rarely spiral striped or stained dark, but in the old days they were quite often tempered to add strength. To temper your rods, scrape and sand them to the proper size, length, and taper your rifle requires. Get a piece of two- or three-inch plastic or steel pipe a few inches longer than your rod. Also get two pipe caps and affix one to your pipe end and make sure it's water tight. Put your rods in the tube, keep it upright and fill it with #1 fuel oil or kerosene. Keep the rods completely submerged and cap the tube. Now, set it aside for nine months to a year. The rods will come out tough, hard, and flexible. It's very difficult to snap one of these rods. My Great Grandpa Harmon Grove taught me this trick forty years ago when he was 96. He "tempered" his cleaning rods, hammer handles, axe handles, pick handles, and shovel handles. Tempering your ramrods adds to safety, as a broken ramrod can easily pierce flesh. The best reason for the tempered ramrod is the near elimination of field breakage. Be sure to use only straight-grained hickory with no grain "run-out"; split wood is better than sawn.

Kerosene is a "modern" product, so if you want to temper your ramrod with a 1780 product, use 1/2 to 2/3 turpentine with the balance (1/2 to 1/3) of linseed oil. Soak for about a year. In either case, kerosene or linseed oil, keep the ramrod ends exposed to the liquid as 90% of the absorption of the "liquid" will be through the exposed ends via capillary action. It should be noted that some claim kerosene has a tendency to promote rot in wood. I have no idea how long this takes as I've never viewed it - five years, ten years, more? Enough said on tempering."

I use this method. From Muzzleloader Magazine to fit my tips.

"Fitting a Ramrod Tip

When fitting a metal tip on a ramrod, roughly whittle the end of the rod down to size, ensuring that the tip has a good start on the rod. Then place the ramrod tip in an electric drill and the rod in a padded vice. Buzz the tip onto the ramrod with a good bit of pressure. The friction cause by this action will remove the excess wood, making a perfect fit where the tip and rod butt together.

When fitted in this manner, the tip will be extremely tight. Usually the tip starts to squeal as it turns onto the rod. As it cools, the fit becomes even tighter, making it all but impossible to remove without wringing the end off the rod. When fitted, sand the rod and tip to remove any burrs from rod, then drill and cross pin in usual manner.

If in doubt try this method with a ramrod size dowel to see how easy it is.

--Richard Hare, Alberta, Canada N/D 98."

 

[Black Hand]

From an NMLRA article dated 1999.....

"Ramrods were rarely spiral striped or stained dark, but in the old days they were quite often tempered to add strength. To temper your rods, scrape and sand them to the proper size, length, and taper your rifle requires. Get a piece of two- or three-inch plastic or steel pipe a few inches longer than your rod. Also get two pipe caps and affix one to your pipe end and make sure it's water tight. Put your rods in the tube, keep it upright and fill it with #1 fuel oil or kerosene. Keep the rods completely submerged and cap the tube. Now, set it aside for nine months to a year. The rods will come out tough, hard, and flexible. It's very difficult to snap one of these rods. My Great Grandpa Harmon Grove taught me this trick forty years ago when he was 96. He "tempered" his cleaning rods, hammer handles, axe handles, pick handles, and shovel handles. Tempering your ramrods adds to safety, as a broken ramrod can easily pierce flesh. The best reason for the tempered ramrod is the near elimination of field breakage. Be sure to use only straight-grained hickory with no grain "run-out"; split wood is better than sawn.

Kerosene is a "modern" product, so if you want to temper your ramrod with a 1780 product, use 1/2 to 2/3 turpentine with the balance (1/2 to 1/3) of linseed oil. Soak for about a year. In either case, kerosene or linseed oil, keep the ramrod ends exposed to the liquid as 90% of the absorption of the "liquid" will be through the exposed ends via capillary action. It should be noted that some claim kerosene has a tendency to promote rot in wood. I have no idea how long this takes as I've never viewed it - five years, ten years, more? Enough said on tempering."

That source MUST make it irrefutable.......and true. Sounds like - I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend.

I would like to see proof for the statement "but in the old days they were quite often tempered to add strength."

 

[Swampman]

Read Foxfire 5, it says the same thing.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I wanna know where they got the two or three inch plastic pipe in 1780... :rotf:

 

[Swampman]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/566921/

 

[pcrum]

I'm not a master gunbuilder by any means, but I've put together a few firearms.
FWIW, I've bedded modern barrels with epoxy, and made internal repairs on ML rifles with epoxy, such as building up the mortice behind a lock, tightening up a wobbly rammer thimble, or bedding the tang on an overly deep inlet. All of my guns have a linseed oil finish, due to personal preference. None of them have had any effect on the epoxy.
IMO you'll be fine Mark.

Linseed oil over epoxy is completely different from epoxy over linseed oil.....

I'm not sure I follow- I'm assuming that Mark would epoxy and pin the tips on first, then finish the rod with linseed, therefore it would be linseed over epoxy, same as the treatment I spoke of.
Best regards,
Pat