Pyrodex Vs. Traditional Black

Discussion in 'General Muzzleloading' started by sussexmuzllodr, Sep 6, 2019.

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  1. Sep 6, 2019 #1

    sussexmuzllodr

    sussexmuzllodr

    sussexmuzllodr

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    does it really matter? Has anyone ever done a Empirical study between the two?
    SM
     
  2. Sep 6, 2019 #2

    Patocazador

    Patocazador

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    To me, YES it matters. Pyrodex has a rather short shelf life, corrodes more and I have had more misfires with it than any other 'phony' powder.
    Real black powder is the "gold standard" and it is necessary for flintlocks to be reliable.
     
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  3. Sep 6, 2019 #3

    ADK Bigfoot

    ADK Bigfoot

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    I keep all my powder under the same "ideal" conditions. Thirty year old 3F Goex goes BANG. Thirty year-old Pyrodex P goes "poof." If it goes off at all, older well-stored Pyrodex P is weak, producing low-power or squib loads.

    ADK Bigfoot
     
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  4. Sep 6, 2019 #4

    Coot

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    Years ago, when I was only shooting percussion, I shot both. Fresh Pyrodex works fine in most percussion guns however, I could not get my .32 rifle to shoot reliably with Pyro. Black powder, new or old works fine in everything. Since I can have either delivered to my door, going exclusively to black powder was an easy choice.
     
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  5. Sep 6, 2019 #5

    Carbon 6

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    The answer to both your questions is, YES.
     
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  6. Sep 6, 2019 #6

    bang

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    Only matters to you. I've been using Pyrodex "P" for over 20 years. Real black has been getting harder to get locally due to ship and storage rules. Works for me. No misfires, hesitations or anything else.
     
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  7. Sep 6, 2019 #7

    rodwha

    rodwha

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    I don’t like the fouling from Pyrodex in my revolvers. No other powder has produced that. And the performance seems all over the place from similar to standard Goex to surpassing Swiss.
     
  8. Sep 6, 2019 #8

    Carbon 6

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    I can sum everything up in one statement.
    Real black powder is so good that Hodgdon (the maker of Pyrodex) Acquired the only U.S. manufacturer of real black powder (Goex).
    Ponder that.
     
  9. Sep 6, 2019 #9

    Frontier's

    Frontier's

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    match the nipple to the pyrodex grade you are using and its just as reliable as black. I shoot a ton of it every year. The knight red hot #11 nipple works the best with pyrodex. Its just as accurate as black, cleaner burning in most cases. Corrodes as bad as black? No, Not in my guns at least. If you don't care for your arms, then any rust/pitting that does develop is on your shoulders, not the products fault.
     
  10. Sep 6, 2019 #10

    Carbon 6

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    Doesn't work in a flint lock. :D
     
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  11. Sep 6, 2019 #11

    1100 Remington Man

    1100 Remington Man

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    Well I hate to say this I bought about 10 lbs of Pryrdox 20-25 years ago for $6 a pound on clearance at Wal Mart took me close to 20 years to get a rifle to shoot it in.
    It's all I know and what I will use this fall as I have the last couple seasons and it still kills deer and I have no idea what my FPS is in my Rengade .54 and .530 ball .018 patch Dutch 7 to 1 and 90gr by volume Pryodex RS 90gr. and Rem. Cap.
    It has been stored in my finished basement at a steady temp low humidity.
    Works so far and when it's used up I will go to Black Powder just for more reliable ignition.
    At the rate I'm using it up it will last a while as I only go hunting and don't know of any muzzle loading shoots in my area.
     
  12. Sep 6, 2019 #12

    Mean Gene

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    I've been using Pyrodex since 94, the stuff has performed fine for me, I've seen plenty of cases where BP hasn't gone off for someone, as for corrosion it's your fault if you didn't clean your gun properly.
     
  13. Sep 6, 2019 #13

    Grimord

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    I've used both over the years. As Frontier said, the type of nipple used does make a difference. Pyro requires a hotter flame to ignite, thus the hot shot and red hot nipples. Now that I shoot mostly flint locks, I can only use real black. I can honestly say that i notice no difference in the amount of fouling between the two, As with any muzzleloader, cleaning is required. I do believe that Pyro has a harder "baked on" type of fouling, but nothing that a good cleaning won't clean up.
     
  14. Sep 6, 2019 #14

    Walkingeagle

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    Been shooting Pyrodex since 1998 or so in my cap rifles. I still have some Pyrodex purchased well over 15 years ago with no loss in power or accuracy. It’s my main go to for my cappers when shooting hunting loads with greased patches. I use black in my flinters of course and just this year was introduced to a new moose milk recipe for patches and cleaning, which works great for shooting matches as no swabbing is required. It is a wet patch however and if I am using a capper it does not do well with Pyrodex, so then I use real black. However real black is hard to find up here and costs around $40-$49 a pound!!
    Walk
     
  15. Sep 6, 2019 #15

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

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    Look at the MSDS for Pyrodex....,
    It IS Black Powder, folks! That's why it fouls sooo much. They swap out some of the potassium nitrate for potassium perchlorate, which burns rather than deflagrates which causes the fouling and the caking over time, and the real kicker is they drop the sulfur down from 15% in BP to around 8%, which is why it doesn't like to work in the pan of a flintlock. The first gunpowder was hard to get going..., early Medieval texts speak of using a heated wire to the color of straw to get the stuff to go. They found by adding the sulfur that it went off much easier. It's just to get around the Hazmat regulations. Nothing superior about it at all. "It's better than not having any powder" is the mantra.....

    LD
     
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  16. Sep 6, 2019 #16

    QuinnTheEskimo

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    I use both, I’ve never had a problem with Pyrodex in .45 or .50 guns. I’ve never tried it in my small bore rifles, I use GOEX in those. No one that I know sells black powder locally so I have to order it. You didn’t ask about it, but I prefer Pyrodex to 777.
     
  17. Sep 6, 2019 #17

    Carbon 6

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    Yep, lots of people also don't realize that it is also "traditional".
    Black powders had many different compositions from the 16th century all the way up to WW2 , the early 19th century saw many variations developed.

    Now we can't say the same about other substitute powders that may contain glucose or ascorbic acid. They are contemporary.
     
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  18. Sep 6, 2019 #18

    Tom A Hawk

    Tom A Hawk

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    I tried Pyrodex many years ago in my .54 Hawken caplock. I had no way to measure and provide empirical data but from the felt recoil it seemed to me much less powerful as compared to FF black. I never tried it again and the nearly full bottle is still on my shelf.
     
  19. Sep 6, 2019 #19

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

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    Part of that is speed of deflagration vs. speed of ignition, I think. Shove the ball forward, it shoves back on your shoulder. Accelerate it up to 1500 fps in the first half of your barrel it shoves backwards harder than if that ball hits the same velocity in the last inch of your barrel. I've noticed a difference in recoil with weighed charges of 1Fg vs. 3Fg.

    LD
     
  20. Sep 6, 2019 #20

    45man

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    I use Pyrodex in my .54 since it works and I have every brand of BP made. I just got too lazy to test them all. I love Swiss in my C&B. Pyrodex P is not as good.
    The old paper containers of Pyrodex was the big problem. Then the stuff breaks in shipment so you have fines that need screened out. Depending on what I load for I also use my Redding powder measure, BP or Pyrodex does not make static and it will not go off from static.
     

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