Pyrodex Powder

[rodwha]

I do as well. But he is right. When Pyrodex was used in my rifle and was cleaned well, oiled, and stored I'd check it again and get orange on my patches. Eventually it stopped doing that. It doesn't do that in the guns I used only Triple 7 or Olde Eynsford. Just Pyrodex...

 

[rodwha]

Great post!

I didn't really know all of the down and dirty aspects of Pyrodex that you pointed out. I was given several bottles of P and RS with my ROA, but didn't like the sticky feel of the residue so I decided to use it merely for breaking in a brand new muzzleloader since I was just shooting for fun.

Having read of a couple of CASS shooters claiming that cleaning immediately wasn't really necessary, that they had gone days-weeks without issue I decided to leave this muzzleloader until the next day as I had spent nearly 10 hours at the range and got home very late with two revolvers to clean. The next morning I freaked out on what I found in my rifle and it took hours before I got clean patches.

A test was done showing the results of Pyrodex, BP, and T7 being left for 4 days in a garage. Pyrodex was MUCH worse than BP. Granted no one should leave a gun sitting after use, and I don't except for that once and another to test the statement that using Ballistol (any oil) would keep it from rusting, which it did. But reading what you wrote and seeing the orange patches despite being cleaned I think I will just dump the remaining Pyrodex I have.

Thanks!

 

[mooman76]

I have been shooting Pyrodex for a long time. I couldn't get BP for quite a few years and guess I got used to it. Anyway I ma not a meticulous cleaner but I do think I clean good. Never had an issue. One thing that may attribute to it was when I first started, there was no internet and no guidance for me on cleaning. I just used Hopps #9 like I would my other guns and still do. It takes a few more swabs but it works for me. Never had an issue and maybe that attributed to it.

 

[Okie Hog]

Every fall for many years i scoped, sighted in and tuned up muzzleloaders for other folks. Cleaned up a dozen or two neglected muzzleloaders nearly every fall.

If not cleaned, a gun that fired black powder will be just as damaged as the one that fired Pyrodex.

Black powder and Pyrodex both contain charcoal, sulfur and potassium nitrate. The primary product of combustion in black powder is potassium carbonate. Ditto for Pyrodex. The residues of both contain potassium sulfate and potassium sulfide.

With Pyrodex some of the residue consists of potassium chloride crystals scattered around the bore. IMO: The presence of potassium chloride does not make the residue of Pyrodex any more corrosive than the residue of black powder.

BTW: Except for BlackHorn 209 all the black powder substitutes contain potassium perchlorate. None of the other substitutes are as corrosive as black powder and Pyrodex.

 

[rodwha]

As they say the proof is in the pudding, right? According to the test done on individual plates of steel, one with BP, one with Pyrodex, and one with T7 left in the garage for 4 days (all under the same conditions for the same period of time) certainly showed the Pyrodex to be much more damaged. The T7 after a light clean up looked almost like new. Though both were damaged it wasn't even close to the same.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[rodwha]

Of course the search function works just like the old Bing commercials bringing up everything that isn't relevant... And posting a link from another forum doesn't work. So you'd need to look on the Remington 1858 forum if you care to see unless you can get the search function to work for you as I know it was posted here a several years ago.

 

[CapPopper]

And wether or not its harder on the gun or harder to clean it still comes back to the fact that for some of us real black isn't available within a reasonable distance and ordering enough to be worth the haz-mat fee makes it pretty much a non option.... If I could buy it within 40 or 50 miles id shoot it but 2 pounds at a time is all I could even start to afford and with haz-mat it basically doubles the cost.... Better or not I cannot justify the expense.... Of I was worried about cleaning I would just shoot smokeless guns.... Everyone who keeps trying to justify using real black keeps asking the root issue... It is cost prohibitive for a lot of us wether its better cleans easier ignites better that doesnt matter for 35 dollars a pound.... I don't even cast because its particularly fun its because I can't afford to buy conicals..... 1.00 a shot is waaaay to much... Sometimes cost effectiveness is the most important thing so stop trying to justify us poor folks spending money we simply do not have for something that does the same thing and actually gets you a few less shots...

 

[CapPopper]

Now im open to 777 even though it costs a little more at least I can find it to buy just one pound....

 

[rodwha]

I was just thinking of suggesting it. I like it.

 

[CapPopper]

Ill try it especially if it cleans easier.... Gotta scrub the carp out of my gun with pyrodex and then look at it every day to make sure I did good enough

 

[russellshaffer]

CapPopper, if you can find some Black MZ try that. Sportsmans Warehouse has it for $9.99 a jug. It cleans up very easily and there is almost no fouling build up. I can shoot all day without swabbing or losing accuracy.

 

[mooman76]

You shouldn't have to scrub the heck out of your gun just because you use Pyrodex. Just make sure it's clean and well oiled. It's a good idea to check your gun after you clean, no mater what powder you shoot, every few days until you feel safe it is good enough. You clean with water and if you don't dry it good, you will get rust.

 

[rodwha]

What are you using as a lube?

T7 is certainly easier to clean. It produces less fouling that's not the same.

Black MZ might just be something you would be interested in. It's one of the least fouling but it's also quite weak in comparison. But then with a muzzleloader using heavier charges it's not quite the big deal as it would be for a revolver, which is why I'll never try it.

 

[rodwha]

I went back to a test of various powders using a 30 grn volume charge with a wad and .454" ball from a Pietta NMA. These were all 3F versions (don't recall if Black MZ is 2F or not).

Black MZ weighed 23.3 grns and gave 713 fps with a 40 fps deviation and produced very light fouling.

Grafs (Schuetzen) weighed 28.2 grns and gave 672 fps with a 6 fps deviation and produced very heavy fouling.

Swiss weighed 24.4 grns and gave 920 fps with an 11 fps deviation and produced moderate fouling.

Triple 7 weighed 19.2 grns and gave 847 fps with a 41 fps deviation and produced light fouling.

Pyrodex P weighed 18.2 grns and gave 544 fps with a 144 fps deviation and produced heavy fouling. This was old stock that was open. Testing has showed velocities more like Grafs on to more like Swiss. My old opened stock seemed just fine.

Olde Eynsford weighed 23.8 grns and gave 906 fps with 14 fps deviation and produced moderate fouling.

 

[CapPopper]

Beeswax and olive oil for lube... Seems like I always have to clean the darn thing twice just about no matter what.... I can scrub it for 20 mins change water and still get discolored patches clean it more get clean patches then go to oil it and get a dirty patch that way...

 

[CapPopper]

Always rinse with the hottest water I can get out of my tap run a dry patch through it and let it sit on the register for a couple heat cycles to dry it

 

[CapPopper]

It does have a little bit of very mild pitting mostly in the first 2- 3 inches from the muzzle

 

[Mean Gene]

I gave up on trying to get pure white patches after cleaning, I know it's clean but the patches still show discoloration.

:metoo:

 

[AZbpBurner]

As they say the proof is in the pudding, right? According to the test done on individual plates of steel, one with BP, one with Pyrodex, and one with T7 left in the garage for 4 days (all under the same conditions for the same period of time) certainly showed the Pyrodex to be much more damaged. The T7 after a light clean up looked almost like new. Though both were damaged it wasn't even close to the same.

I'll see if I can find it.

If you leave your guns in the garage for 4 days without cleaning, you're asking for corrosion. Plain and simple. And it doesn't matter which powder you use. I was told long ago to never let the sun set before cleaning any BP firearm. I live by that simple rule and the only corrosion or pitting I have is on guns from their former owners (who evidently not only let the sun set without cleaning, but put their guns in the garage ...)

 

[rodwha]

:hatsoff:

While the T7 didn't really do much damage at all it can't be said it was pristine.

However if one were to use an oil to defuse the ability to soak moisture I can say it would preserve it as I tested it by leaving mine sit in the garage. But that's not the norm and only if one finds themselves without the time for whatever reason.