Powder types; Is there a difference?

[Col. Batguano]

I'm getting ready to order a bunch of powder. Thus far, I've only used Goex. Going through Powder Inc.'s web site, they have a bunch of them (other than Goex). I'm wondering if getting some of each of the different types (Swiss, Old Eynsford, Schutzen, KIK, Diamondback, Skirmish powder) to experiment with is complicating things needlessly trying to find the "perfect" load.

My background is in competitive 3-P smallbore, and we kept copious notes and notebooks in trying to keep our groups tight in varying weather conditions, often changing ammo during a match if weather conditions changed..

 

[George T.]

Here is my 2 Cents! The basic formulation is the same from brand to brand with maybe slight variables. The main delta is in quality control. I am pretty sure when I say that KIK , Schutzen and Graf's powder are all made in the same plant.

The Swiss powder is I believe made elsewhere. It strikes me as odd that these foreign powders are easier to fins especially the last year. I think the new Goex powder and Swiss are probably better. However I have a friend that made a bulk buy on KIK and it was cheap. $10 or $11 a pound a year ago. It shoots fine in fact he beats me with it. I bought a bulk buy of Schultzen and it was less than $14 a pound.

If there is a powder out there that is said to be inferior I have not heard about the problem. Geo. T.

 

[necchi]

I'm wondering if getting some of each of the different types (Swiss, Old Eynsford, Schutzen, KIK, Diamondback, Skirmish powder) to experiment with is complicating things needlessly trying to find the "perfect" load.

The bold pretty much say's it.

Once the guns preferred ball size is determined,
The variables of,,
,Patch thickness, Patch lube properties and the effect of those in combination with bore fouling and consistent bore condition is far more important to target accuracy than the variable of the chosen powder.
Don't get me wrong, there are differences in the assorted powders but it's not at all the same as with CF cartridge and smokeless powders.
Don't waste time with that, the powder charge and it's fouling properties are the variable. You can use any powder and adjust the charge.

My point is just choose a powder and work with that single powder as you spend time adjusting the above variables.

There are about a gazzilion powder comparison threads in the back pages of this forum. If your really curious about powders spend some time reading back pages and threads and look for common/repeated advice and experience.

hint;
The predominate match winners are using Swiss, Goex and T7,, not necessarily in that order.

 

[buzz]

I been useing skimmish and goex last few years
I shoot the same (bad) lolz with either brand
One thing i have noticed is the cheaper powders the quality of uniformality is much less
So if your super seriouse shooter them get the best but for me i get whst i enjoy with the cheap

 

[jamesthomas]

I'll put in my 2 cents worth, I use KIK because it shoots cleaner and I get tighter groups with it than Goex.In my book it's between Goex and Swiss and cheaper than either one. Last time I bought some it was around 17.10 a pound for 10lbs.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

What Geo T said, with the very minor addendum that I believe Kik is made in a different country than Schutzen-Wano-Graf, Slovenia as I remember.

 

[VEARL]

Luv my KIK.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Shooey]

I believe that Necchi has hit the nail on the head. Experiment with loads, patch thickness, lubes, and balls first, all with the same powders. Once you find a good combination, keep everything else the same and try a different powder.

As an experienced 3P shooter, you know how to keep a good journal.

-Shooey

PS I coach a local 3P rifle team.

 

[David W.]

Goex is good enough powder, KIK is a little better. Swiss is best.

 

[BlackNet]

Schuetzen: made by Wano Schwarzpulver GmbH in Germany, imported by Schuetzen powder of Texas.

Swiss: Made by Poudrerie D'Aubonne in Switzerland, imported by Schuetzen powder of Texas.

Goex: is owned by Hodgdon, made in Louisiana, US

Kik: made by Kik Kammik d.o.o. in Slovenia imported by Western powder co in Montana.

Diamondback: made by Elephant in Brazil.



Having cleared that part up I am greatly shocked and somewhat disappointed that not one person has mentioned relative humidity to the OP's reference.

Col. Batguano

My background is in competitive 3-P smallbore, and we kept copious notes and notebooks in trying to keep our groups tight in varying weather conditions, often changing ammo during a match if weather conditions changed..

See this.

Any formula used to show what happens when Black Powder burns needs to be qualified with the conditions under which the burning occurred.

If the Relative Humidity is 30%, or less, the residue left by the common powders is for all intent non-hygroscopic. The powder combustion residue will be dry. As the Relative Humidity rises above 30% the powder residue will then exhibit hygroscopic behavior. At about 70 to 80% R.H. the residue will exhibit deliquescent behavior.

also from the same author.

By watching the consistency, or "texture" of the bore fouling and both the air temperature and the relative humidity a pattern began to evolve.

If the relative humidity was 30%, or lower, the powder residue in the bore would be dry and powdery. Pressure applied by a damp cleaning patch, or by a patched round ball in reloading without wiping, the bore fouling would be compacted into a hard cake that adhered strongly to the bore surfaces. If the relative humidity was above 40% the bore fouling would be moist. The degree of moistness increasing with increases in the relative humidity.

:sources
Black Powder Manufacturing, Testing & Optimizing
http://www.laflinandrand.com/madmonk/Swiss_Booklet.pdf
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/blackpowderhistory.htm
http://www.iei-world.org/pagine/congress/19/congress_19_14.asp

Also this link is of note. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8785.0