Powder Magazine

[toot]

it is odd that for over 100 yrs. that it was the method that was used, what has changed? I know that it is shipped in plastic / nylon containers of some kind now.

 

[Tumbledown]

it is odd that for over 100 yrs. that it was the method that was used, what has changed? I know that it is shipped in plastic / nylon containers of some kind now.

Tin cans have soldered seams that will fail in a fire before the powder ignites. Ammo boxes do not.

 

[toot]

Tin cans have soldered seams that will fail in a fire before the powder ignites. Ammo boxes do not.

I think when a house burns up down that an ammo box stands just about as much a chance of not exploding as a cat in hell with a cheloid a$$ hole. I believe that ammo cans were not made the survive a fire. they were made to carry ammo? at least when I served. I may be wrong? jmho.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

much ado about nothing...

 

[scott-wv]

That makes a certain degree of intuitive sense, and I understand your safety point, but you might want to check on the description of BATF magazine types.

A Type 3 magazine (portable magazine) is REQUIRED to be of "no less than 12-gauge steel ...", Type 4 magazines (if not masonry) MUST be "metal-covered" or "fabricated metal" (and I'm thinking that exploding masonry is no less problematic than exploding steel), and Type 5 Indoor Magazines must be of "solid wood or metal" but the hinges and hasps must be "attached by welding" (presumably to metal) or by riveting or bolting. I guess you could argue that the BATF magazine requirements ignore a certain level/type of safety, but the differences involved in flying metal from hasps/hinges vs. thin-walled steel (and so not exactly a pipe bomb) may be largely academic as a matter of practicality.

In any event, I think there are practical arguments to be made on either side of this issue, and neither seems to entirely carry the day against the other. In my own case, I feel a little more comfortable with the tool box than with a wooden container (and partly because it does satisfy the Type 3 requrement for portability). Whatever the powder is in, it will provide no more threat than the acetylene B tank on the other side of the garage, the several small propane or mapp gas canisters on some shelves, or the 100 gal. propane tank sitting right outside the front corner of the building.

So I also tend to agree with the "overthinking" comment, in part because there's just no ideal choice here that fits all the criteria for safety that we'd like. It reminds me of a conversation I heard reported between a collector and an old Russian soldier concerning how dreadfully difficult it is to use the safeties on Mosin-Nagant rifles: "Is not safe. Is gun."

The BATF descriptions for a type 3 and type 4 storage magazines are designed for portable magazines, those that can be moved. Type 3 magazines are designed for use with high explosives and type 4 magazines are for use with low explosives like black powder. The BATF regulations can be confusing and sometimes hard to understand but no one has ever accused the BATF of being practical.

 

[scott-wv]

DO NOT store black powder or any other gun powder for that matter in a STEEL container. That is a pipe bomb in the event of a fire. Use a wood chest or locker. I store mine in a simple kitchen type cabinet high enough off the floor that the grandkids can't get into it.

The BATF regulations states that a type 4 indoor portable storage magazine can be fabricated out of steel of no less than 18 gauge, but it must be covered in a spark resistant material. That’s why we Powdercoat our storage magazines.

Scott

 

[dave951]

The BATF regulations states that a type 4 indoor portable storage magazine can be fabricated out of steel of no less than 18 gauge, but it must be covered in a spark resistant material. That’s why we Powdercoat our storage magazines.

Scott

For home storage, I'll stick with a wood one.

 

[mooman76]

I think when a house burns up down that an ammo box stands just about as much a chance of not exploding as a cat in hell with a cheloid a$$ hole. I believe that ammo cans were not made the survive a fire. they were made to carry ammo? at least when I served. I may be wrong? jmho.

Ammo cans were designed to carry ammo but also for long term storage, possibly in the outside elements. Also to for BP but for smokeless powder rounds. A big difference between BP and smokeless powder.

 

[scott-wv]

For home storage, I'll stick with a wood one.

For personal use and home storage that is fine. The BATF regulations are mostly for businesses selling powder or those who are applying for an FEL Federal Explosives License.

 

[SOLANCO]

The hardware where I buy BP stores it in a brick shed about 30 yards from their building. There are no other structures nearby. They have told me they do this at the behest of their insurance company.

 

[david w]

Powder Storage Safes - mainepowderhouse.com

This is how I store my BP. It is made of metal, and has two locks. It meets all safety requirements. There is nothing wrong with a wood storage container, but it should be painted red. One thing to note is my storage safe is on casters, which can come in pretty handy.

 

[david w]

it is odd that for over 100 yrs. that it was the method that was used, what has changed? I know that it is shipped in plastic / nylon containers of some kind now.

They use plastic basically for cost cutting. There is nothing bad about metal cans or the BATF would not have allowed it.

 

[doubleset]

Apparently for most of us there simply aren't any ATF requirements for BP storage since the law "exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds ". Those who have more than 50 pounds fall under ATF regulation.

 

[FishDFly]

From a Swiss 1 lb.

Storage of Black Powder

1. Store in original packaging
2. Do not store with other combustible materials
3. Store product within locals, state and federal laws.
4. Store in a cool dry place with lid tightly closed.

It is perfectly safe to store BP under the bed on your wife's side.

This eliminates trips to a remote storage area, where it could be hot or cold when going there.

 

[dave951]

For some entertaining research, I looked into what was required for insurance and regulations to be a black powder dealer. Pages upon pages........

 

[Cattywompuss]

Well this devolved into exactly what my post asked not to be done. Glad I didn't have notifications on. I'll just stick with what I have already.

 

[Pete G]

Well this devolved into exactly what my post asked not to be done. Glad I didn't have notifications on. I'll just stick with what I have already.

Wait until you have a stuck ball....

 

[Coinneach]

DO NOT store black powder or any other gun powder for that matter in a STEEL container. That is a pipe bomb in the event of a fire. Use a wood chest or locker. I store mine in a simple kitchen type cabinet high enough off the floor that the grandkids can't get into it.

Agreed, I store my stout wooden chest under the bed where its handy for me to get out, unlock and count the containers on sleepless nights, kinda makes me feel warm and fuzzy....

 

[Coinneach]

BP does not explode in a fire, it goes poof.

Much like LGBT folk at Gay pride marches ......

 

[DuncNZ]

I store mine in an old fridge , it is heat resistant and the door would blow open if the powder inside got hot enough to ignite , it is stored in the garage which is isolated from the house .