Possibles v. Shooting Bag

[zgilbert]

Ok here comes the stupid questions. What is the difference in the two? Would both of them be carried at the same time? What would be in the possibles bag and the shooting bag? Time period-1733 to post F&I.

 

[jethro224]

It's simple.
The shooting bag carries everything you need to shoot your rifle.
The possibles bag carries everything else you might possibly need.

 

[Claude Mathis]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/231945

 

[CrackStock]

So then, what is a haversack? :wink: :rotf:

CS

 

[lonehunter]

So then, what is a haversack? :wink: :rotf:

CS

Its a sack to carry your haver in! :shocked2:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Haversack is the proper name for a possibles bag.

Shooting bags are also sometimes called hunting bags or just ball bags.

 

[CrackStock]

In the RevWar context, we understand it to be a lunchbox.

CS

 

[BrownBear]

I've noticed a direct correlation: My shooting bags keep getting smaller while my possibles bags/haversacks keep getting bigger!

I carry the same amount of gear, but I want less and less of it in my shooting bag and in the way.

 

[shortbow]

Sure is nice to see this in print, finally. Thanks.

 

[Okwaho]

Haversack is the proper name for a possibles bag.

Shooting bags are also sometimes called hunting bags or just ball bags.

Agreed and I have seen a couple of early 19th century East Tennessee estate inventories where the terms, "shot bags} and "shot guns " were used.I once did some serious research on "possibles bags" and the earliest date was the 1820's in the Rocky Mountain area.
Tom Patton

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm at work and have nothing before me but I have read where someone "returned for his gun and ball bag" or seen references to a ball bag and assume it is often what we'd call the hunting pouch.

Recently I read where Washington was assessing the mess he'd just agreed to and his militia units were arriving to the call and averaged 9 cartridges per man vs. the British Regulars issue of 60. Speculation - but 9 made .75 cal cartridges would about fit in an 8"x 8" bag with room for a few other accoutrements & fixins.

 

[George]

In my database of 18th-century newspapers the terms we use today mostly don't show up. Here's a listing of the searches I've made, with results, 1728-1800:

bullet bag or pouch = 0
hunting bag or pouch = 0
shooting bag or pouch = 0
possibles bag, pouch or sack = 0
shot bag = 10
shot pouch = 10
haversack = 9
wallet = 200+

In reading descriptions where it was obvious they were talking about something analogous to our hunting/shooting pouch, they invariably called it a shot bag or shot pouch, as here:

"The Pennsylvania Gazette
April 9, 1777
PHILADELPHIA
Extract of a letter from Pittsburg, dated March 24.

A few days ago the Indians killed one Andrew Simpson, and took or killed a brother of Captain Moorhead, near Kittaning. They scalped Simpson, and left a tomahawk and war belt on him, and a piece of writing in his shot pouch, dated Niagara, 8th February, 1777,...."

"THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE 3
June 30, 1775
FINCASTLE, May 21, 1775.
RUN away.... a rackoon hat, a brass mounted long smooth-bore gun, marked on the side-plate MM 1769, and on the barrel W. MORGAN, a shot-bag and powder-horn, a canister with 2 lbs. of powder, a falling axe, a pocket compass, &c. &c."

I've never found the terms hunting pouch or shooting pouch used in any of my research, and I've looked hard. Same is true of possibles bag, but I believe that is a 19th-century term, out of my area.

Spence

 

[LaBonte]

Haversack is the proper name for a possibles bag.

Shooting bags are also sometimes called hunting bags or just ball bags.

Agreed and I have seen a couple of early 19th century East Tennessee estate inventories where the terms, "shot bags} and "shot guns " were used.I once did some serious research on "possibles bags" and the earliest date was the 1820's in the Rocky Mountain area.
Tom Patton

Sorry but a haversack is not the correct name for a possibles bag - a haversack as noted was originally a military item for carrying food.
A possibles sack on the other hand (earliest mention is in fact in the 1830's - see Claude's link above) was a carry all for ones additional clothes, gear, etc.



Specnce for more more info on shot bags, abll bags, etc. try variant spellings - I have seen such variants as schott bag, shott bag and pouch, etc. at various times and places...

 

[George]

Spence for more more info on shot bags, abll bags, etc. try variant spellings - I have seen such variants as schott bag, shott bag and pouch, etc. at various times and places...

Yes, I've had some success by doing that, and you learn that they had writing conventions we no longer use. For instance, they frequently will say crack'd or crack't for cracked. They usually say cloaths for clothes, smoak for smoke, etc, and that's the educated ones writing the newspapers. It helps give you an idea of how they sounded when they spoke, but it certainly does confuse keyword search engines.

"Dimety, & strip'd Holland Cloaths, brown colour'd & white Thread, & sowing Silk, Shoe Thread, Lasts & wax, Powder, shott, & Guns, Gawze for Pavillions, Cotton & Chints Coverlets,"

Great fun, but can be frustrating.

Spence

 

[George]

Sorry but a haversack is not the correct name for a possibles bag - a haversack as noted was originally a military item for carrying food.

Even in the writings of the day it's not always possible to be certain that is the only way the term was used.

"The Pennsylvania Gazette
August 23, 1764
Extract of a Letter from Niagara, dated July 15, 1764.

A few days ago a Soldier was fired at by an Indian on the Carrying Place; the Ball struck the Haversack on his Back, the things therein prevented its entering his Body;"

Most people today think of the thing soldiers carried on their back as a knapsack, not a haversack, don't they? And I have a study done by the Army of the Potomac during the Civil War in which it is made completely clear that each soldier carried both a haversack and a knapsack and that food was to be carried in both.

Gives a man a headache, why didn't somebody write all this stuff down at the time?! :haha:

Spence

 

[tg]

You can wear a Havewresack pretty much on ypur nack and all the period references I have seen suggest it is a military term for a ration bag, and not realated to the later possibles bag, this seems to be something carried on the horse there are paintings and mentions of shoulder bags used by civilians in Europe and a couple in the colonies but they are pretty much dissmissed by those who feel the only shoulder bag used on the colonies is the military applcation "haversack", if one brings up the reference of a farmer or peddlar having a bag similar to the Haversack then it is said that one must be a farmer or peddlar to use such a bag, but such stringent requirements are rarely applied to other items/practices, I think one need do their own study and set their own standards here as the bias is overwhelmingand but particuarly convincing IMHO

 

[Stumpkiller]

In my database of 18th-century newspapers the terms we use today mostly don't show up. Here's a listing of the searches I've made, with results, 1728-1800:

bullet bag or pouch = 0
hunting bag or pouch = 0
shooting bag or pouch = 0
possibles bag, pouch or sack = 0
shot bag = 10
shot pouch = 10
haversack = 9
wallet = 200+

How about "ball bag"?

Or, if you're like me Pappy, "ball poke"

 

[George]

How about "ball bag"?

Searched for both ball bag and ball pouch, forgot to include that in the list, sorry. Zero hits.

I'm open to any suggestions for terms to search for.

Spence

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Also to point out that "shot bag" and "shot pouch" do not have exclusive use in relation to smoothe guns. They are used in association with rifle guns in period writings.

 

[crockett]

If your period is 1733 to post French and Indian War then I am not sure the term "possibles bag/sack" was even used. I have always associated that term with the mountain man period.
Off hand, I think what we today call a hunting pouch was called a bullet pouch/bag. Today what we often call a bullet pouch/bag is a very small bag that carried only round balls and gets stored in the hunting pouch.