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Position of touch hole?

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m-g willy

40 Cal.
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Converting a percussion to flint and need to install touch hole liner.
I was going to center the hole on the top of the pan.
But I also seen that it should sit with the bottom of touch hole on top of pan.
:idunno:
So what are you all's views?
 
Pletch did a lot of testing with touch hole locations and found that lower is better than higher.

Of course, the hole should not be so low that the powder in the pan covers it before firing so, it's kind of debatable as to where the "best" position is.

I usually try to locate the hole up and down so that the center of it is right on the top of the pan.
 
High, so when you close the frizzen it is covered by the base of the frizzen this way it won't plug and have the fuse effect...

Also you don't have to worry about how much powder or where it is in the pan...Both of mine are set up this way and they worl perfectly...I'd also cone from the inside...
 
+1 on center of touch hole is even with top edge of the pan. Zonie makes some good points but I want the priming charge to "lick" the main charge and dont want the hole to get clogged.
 
In my opinion, the hole locations that you describe (center line of hole @ top of pan, or top of hole @ top of pan) will work fine. I think that what needs to be mentioned here besides coneing the back of the linner is the size of your touch hole. The size of your touch will make or brake your ignition reliabilty and ignition speed! (.06 to .07). Use the smallest size to get the best reliable ignition.

good luck
Tradegunner

P.S. Your makeing a good choice to convert to flint! :thumbsup:
 
Heat Rises. Its the Heat- not the flame- that ignites the powder charge. Get the powder charge( inside the barrel) as close to the OUTSIDE vent, and flash pan, as you can, by using a white lightning vent liner, that is beveled on the INSIDE in the shape of a parabolic curve, to get the fastest ignition. Put the touch hole ABOVE the flash pan.

MY gun builder recommends it to be .030" ABOVE a line drawn across the top of the pan. He is convinced that this position provides the fastest ignition. The fowler Craig built for me is FAST, and ignition is reliable. Its never failed to fire.

I can't tell the difference between a hole above that "line", or .030" above it.

IMHO, Just don't put the TH where powder in the pan can cover it up, and create a " fuse-effect", slow ignition( Klatch-Fsssssh-Boom!), or misfire( Klatch-Fsssssh.....). :hmm: :thumbsup:
 
When I started this rifle back in the late 70's all I had to go by was books, no internet. Bucheles book says to center the hole vertically, which I did. But the top of the pan is .06 above center. I've already installed the liner. I've fired it maybe 20 times and have had maybe 5 flash in the pan instances. I'm still learning the details of it. Any suggestions? Maybe a liner with the hole off center? I'm a retired machinist so I think I could make one out of a stainless set screw.
And just for clarification, you're saying that the touch hole should be exposed when the priming powder is in the pan.
 
Zonie said:
Pletch did a lot of testing with touch hole locations and found that lower is better than higher.

Of course, the hole should not be so low that the powder in the pan covers it before firing so, it's kind of debatable as to where the "best" position is.

I usually try to locate the hole up and down so that the center of it is right on the top of the pan.


I wish Pletch's testing on this would be made into a sticky. Lot's of good information there, as we always get questions on touch hole locations.
 
Search this site for good info.
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/pan-vent-experiments.php

I too am interested in this discussion as I'm installing a white lightnin liner. The research of Mr. Pletch is very revealing. In part 6 he notes that covering the vent was not a problem. I've noted that often the advice is to bank away from the vent and not to cover the vent. His results counter this clearly, opinions?
 
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Yes, I am saying you don't want the TH covered by the powder in the pan, if you want fast ignition.

An off-set TH in a new liner would do the trick.

My buddy, Don, when he converted my rifle from percussion to flint, found that the hole in the barrel was not centered properly to allow a proper position of the TH. So, he put a steel plug in the existing hole, welded it in place, filed it to the barrel flat, and then drilled a new hole. He put the White Lightning liner in the barrel.

Now, at the time, everyone was saying to use a " sunset" position for the TH- that is, half above and half below the line draw across the top of the flash pan. That is what he did. I later found that the gun would misfire, and I had to open up the hole in the liner, finally to 5/64" to get reliable ignition.

My fowler, built in 2004, by Craig Witte, of Fairmount, Illinois, has that TH located .030" ABOVE the line across the pan. He instructed me to fill the pan completely with priming powder, to insure reliable ignition. I have followed his advice, and the gun goes off fast every time. I do use a vent pick to poke a hole into the powder charge before priming the pan. That allows the heat from the prime to enter the barrel and ignite several granules of powder all at the same time, setting off a quick series of several " fuses" to get all the powder charge burning as fast as is possible in this open style of firearm.

By comparison, a friend who owned a Cannon we built tried using commercial fuse cord to light the cannon, and then poured both 4Fg and 3Fg powder down the TH in the top of the cannon to see if we could get reliably FAST enough ignition that we could time better the actual firing of his cannon.

The fuse was hopeless. You never knew when the gun was going to fire, no matter how consistent the length of fuse was cut. We tried both the fine powders down the TH, and as long as he blew the ashes off the end of his rope " MATCH", ignition of the main charge came within 1/2 second of when he touched the ember to the prime.

This was important, as we were asked to provide some comic relief to a model airplane show. The club had built an " outhouse" with sides that would fall down when strings were released inside. One of the members was dressed as a clown, and would enter the outhouse. We had the cannon in a small ravine behind the outhouse, where the audience could not see us. The people flying a replica of a WWII bomber, had a small plastic " bomb " that could be released by remote control. When they targeted the outhouse, the clown was inside, and we were able to time the firing of the cannon towards the outhouse with a load of mostly flour with the dropping of the " bomb", and the collapse of the wall,so that the clown appeared from the cloud of smoke, with what appeared to be his pants down, and on fire! The audience loved it, and, frankly, it was a very interesting problem to solve using a replica British Light 6-pound field piece. The club members were Thrilled that we helped them make a success of their " show". And everyone- including the club members-- gathered around to ask questions about his cannon.
 
Next weekend I get to do some shooting. I guess I'll set up a little trial and see what kind of results I get with the different opinions expressed here so far. I assumed that covering the vent with powder was the way to go, but I can see that maybe that isn't the case. I'm new to shooting flintlocks. I have had this rifle for 30+ years but am now just getting it shootable. Pletch's web site is sure interesting. Glad someone is taking the time to do that kind of research.
 
Larry Pletcher does GREAT work. He is limited in what he can do by the equipment available. I sat down with him at Friendship and had a long discussion about how to go about testing the various aspects, or stages, of flint ignition. We don't disagree about very much.

I don't think he recommends covering the TH with priming powder. He did discuss how he fired a gun with the TH down in the bottom of the pan. But, remember, he is using a copper wire heated to touch off the powder, in order to get his computer to time the event properly, and consistently. The differences in ignition times are measured in thousandths of a second- far too fast for most human ears to hear, and certainly too FAST for any shooter to move his sights between pulling the trigger, and the gun going off.

There IS an Audible difference between shooting a lock with the powder covering the TH, and one where the TH is Not covered, and has been picked to leave a hole in the main powder charge inside the barrel to aid ignition.
 
It is interesting that on a site were a guy is building a late Manton lock from castings that the Manton was designed to assure that the vent was wiped clean by the frizzen. The frizzen had a v shaped metal rib on the pan side. It covered the vent and left a channel in the prime charge to better catch sparks.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/mantonlock/mantonlock.html
 
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What would be the point of timing a lock if the pan is set off with a glowing copper wire?Doesn't make sense. He uses photo cells. Lock is tripped by a solenoid activated by the computer. Do a little more research.
 
In this experiment, he is not timing the lock, he is timing the speed at which the priming charge ignites the main charge. By using the heated wire, he is taking any variables in the lock out of the equation.
 
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