posible bullet problem

[axp117crow]

my dad gave me these bullets to try in my flintlock, we both have traditions deerhunters. his barrel is 1:66 mine is 1:48. he bought these bullets for his gun last year and had no luck. they were for a 1:66 twist barrel. i figured i would try just for the hell of it and at 50 yds i had about a 5 inch group. at 100 yds i couldn't make any really consistant group. i mean it could have just been me but i was using a rifle rest on a bench to eliminate most the human error. is it just the bullets or is it more likely me?

i'm thinkin of just goin back to round balls, i'm not sure if i should try another bullet made for the 1:48 barrel. what do you guys think?

 

A sound decision on your part. :thumbsup: Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

Normally, the faster rate of twist will handle the conicals better. You don't tell us your powder charge, lube, patching if any, diameter of the bullet, weight, length of the bullet, bore diameter of your gun. Without this information, all I can suggest is that you have someone else who is a good shooter, try they gun with these loads, and see if he does as well, or worse, or better. That would be a good indication that it might be you. However, if you are going to test fire new loads, I suggest doing so at much closer ranges, like 50 yds, max. Yes, you will eventually want to shoot the gun at 100 yds, but work up the load at 25 or 50 yds. FIRST! Then, go to the longer range. I say this because not everyone is very good or even well practiced at shooting open sights, so that even a good rifle shooter who normally would use a scope on a rifle, may not shoot open sights at long range very well at all. It can work the other way, too. I shot nothing but open sights for many years before pulling one of my breechloaders with a scope on it out of the closet to take the range. Boy, was I lousy shooting that scope! It took a box of shells before I settled down and regained my shooting form.

 

[bob1961]

how much variation in powder load in grains did ya try....did ya try different powder charges to see what amount yer gun likes with them bullets :v ..............bob

 

[renovato]

Shooting conicals in a slow or medium twist barrel is a bit of a balancing act. Length of bullet and powder charge are important. I haven't tried any conicals in 1:66 twists since they're designed for round ball only, but I've shot plenty in 1:48. 1:48 is a medium twist that will shoot balls and shorter conicals well usually, but not sabots.

You don't mention which conicals you've tried and their weight, nor your load, so I'll pass on some general ideas.

Try light to medium weight conicals for your 1:48. It's not really fast enough to stabilize heavy ones, though sometimes you can get lucky. Start with a medium powder charge of say 60 grains or so, and work up in 5 grain increments. You'll probably find a charge that shoots them very well. It will rarely be close to the maximum powder charge. If you're trying to shoot conicals at or near maximum powder charge, that could be the problem with accuracy right there.

 

[axp117crow]

i have no info on the bullets, my dad bought them to try with his gun and through the box out. he said all he remembers is that it said 1:66 twist on it and they were hornadays and they were pre-lubed with no patch. i shoot 80 grains of powder with my roundballs and shot the same with the conicals. i was shooting about a 2 inch group at 50 yds with my roundballs before, but these things i couldn't get closer thanabout 5 or 6 inches at 50 yds. i tried 100 after several days of practice at 50. i was really only trying these out cuz they were in the gun cabinet and i was out of roundballs. but anyway i bought some roundballs and i'm headin back to the range tomorow, so long as it don't rain. these were shootin fine last year, they should now to i assume. we'll see.

 

[paulvallandigham]

80 grains is a bit much for conicals. Start at 60 grains of powder and work up in 5 grain increments. You should find a load somewhere in the middle, that shoots small groups. Weight the conicals to tell how much they weigh. then use a ruler to measure the length, or height of them. Long conicals require faster twist than do short ones. YOu don't tell us the caliber of the gun, so its a little hard to guess what you are using just by the name " hornady ". I am assuming these conicals are lead, and not copper jacketed. If you did not use some kind of overpowder wad, that would also explain the poor accuracy. You can't use a patch like you use with a round ball, but you do need to protect the base of that bullet until it leaves the barrel.

 

[axp117crow]

i am using a 50 cal Traditions Deerhunter and the bullets are lead. the bullets are maybe 1/2 inch, smaller if anything def not bigger. they are really similar to the size of a roundball, they are just conical. either way i'm back to the roundballs for now, i just wanna get my gun shooting good for hunting season, i'll try the conicals out in the spring. but i still would like any info that i can keep in the back of my head until then

 

[bullofthewoods]

I recently tried the Hornady PA conical bullet, 50cal in my rifle 1:66 twist. They are prelubed 240 grain bullets, require no patching, "designed for slow twist barrels". Hornady recommended 100 grains powder to start with. I wasn't that daring so I tried 90 grains (what my current PRB hunting load is at) I had a considerably lower POI (obviously) and my groups went from clover leafs at 50 yds to about 4 inch groups. I experienced much more fouling and more difficulty loading successive shots. Why do I ever try to fix what just isn't broken?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Bull: I would try those conicals again, but used a lubed overshot card or wad under the bullet. Start at 70 grains( .50-70) and don't worry about the POI for now. Just shoot for groups. When you have a good, accurate load worked out, then you can decided about changing the sights to use it for hunting. That 240 grains compares to the 185 grains for a .490 round ball, so of course you should expect it to hit a lower POI at 100 yds. That is simple physics.

 

[axp117crow]

i think the bullets that you used were probobly the same that i used. i too noticed larger groups and agree with your statement about fixing things that aren't broken. i am back to RB's and patches and am going to the range today to make sure it wasn't just me over the past few days with the conicals. i also noticed, how you said, about having trouble loading consecutive shots. either way i wasn't satisfied at all

 

[Smk50]

I shoot PRB and on occasion lee r.e.a.l. bullets(250Gr) I have a traditions 1/48 and a kentucky 1/66 and my own build with a 1/70 I can get acceptable groups 2- 2 1/2 at 50yds even from the roundbal barrels. my best group from RB barrel and lee bullet was 75gr of 3f any higher and the groups start opening up.

 

[redwing]

I had the same thing happen with my .50 Cal. Hawken Rifle. When I went back to PRBs I couldn't load the darn thing. I found the bore coated with lead from the conicals. It took forever to clean it out. Never again will I do that. :nono:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

with my traditions kentucky with PRB and 80 grains goex, i get just slightly over 2" groups at 100 yards and low about 4 inchs. Everytime i up the charge to 110 grains goex and use my PRB, that sucker tightens up to inch and a half groups at 100 yards. ive tried 90 and 100 grains but that extra 10 grains tightens those shots up big time. Im only 3" high at 50 yards to. I want to see where it would be shooting at 150 and then 200 :grin:

 

[Walks with fire]

I have a 1/66" twist barrel in my rifle and I have stuffed everything I can find to try down that barrel.

I tried the Hornandy 240 PA conicals and they shot ok group wise out to 75 yards or so. I took 2 deer with them several years ago but found that they broke apart in the deer if anything solid was hit. Penetration was also poor. I quit using them.

Next I shot up quite as few Buffalo Ball-ets in 270 grain with HP's. They shot ok as well and the deer that I took that year was hit in the heart/lung area at around 60 yards. The Ball-et performed great; complete pass thru, great expansion. This deer probably went 100 yards but there as a blood trail that a blind man could follow. So far it's my favorite heavy bullet in this gun and it's performance on deer is great.

The one thing I don't like about this type of projectile is that they are just a bit loose in my barrel. I always wanted to try a paper patch to tighten the load up a bit and perhaps increase the accuracy from a better contact with the rifleing. I have not got around to it yet. Anything any longer than that bullet just won't stabilize or shoot well in my barrel. I think a wrap or two of cigarette rolling paper might be just the ticket if it doesn't get torn up too bad when loading.

Another thing that I have tried that works well in my rifle is the mmp black sabot with a 250 grain .452 Hornday pistol bullet. I know most on this site have an aversion to plastic but it does work well in my rifle and is reported to be a good deer round. The same bullet in 300 grain won't shot well because it's too long I think. The pointed stuff won't even stabilize because it's too long.

Just yesterday I picked up a box of 385 grain Hornday Great Plains bullets at Wal-Mart for 5 bucks and decided to give them a go. They didn't shot worth a darn accuracy wise but they did stabilize and point of impact was around 6" right. Same thing with other slip fit bullets in my rifle; they are just a tad loose. I will try them in the 1/28 twist flintlock barrel eventually. I like pure lead vs the copper plated stuff.

Well, I am getting a bit long winded. Try the Ball-et and see what happens. I still prefer the good old roundball over everyting else but it doesn't hurt to try some other stuff as well. Good shooting and good luck.