Poor penetration

[KHickam]

I have a 60 caliber trade pistol, that with 30 grs of FFg and a .600 is a puny pipsquik on penetration - it just dents a 2X4 at about 10 yds - How in the hell did they kill anything with these things> :shocked2: :shake:

 

[flintlock75]

I have had the same experience with handguns. Pistols were not ment to kill large critters but to kill or wound humans. Your shot may not have penetrated a 2x4 but it would ruin a humans day if they were shot. All it takes is 2" of penatration on a person to cause a fatal wound.
In my .67cal and .54cal smoothbore pistols i use 35 gr of 3F and a patched ball.I have found the increase in powder made for better penetration on a block of wood. Still not a bear killer load but there not a .44 mag.

 

[LRB]

I commonly use 50gr FFFg in a .62. It penetrates very well.

 

[poordevil]

That is the Middlesex trade pistol isn't it? How do you like it?


p

 

[LRB]

No, I have the Heavy Brit Dragoon. I am extremely pleased with it, but also realize that it is less than top quality. I was most amazed at the #7 1/2 shot pattern it throws. I usually get as many as 4 shot through a soda can at 20 yrds. I think thats pretty good for a 12" barrel. A man sized target is in extreme danger at 25yrds loaded with a ball. Sure thing at 20. I don't shoot it very often, but will try squirrel hunting with it in Feb.

 

[DutchmanDick]

I have had the same experience with handguns. Pistols were not ment to kill large critters but to kill or wound humans. Your shot may not have penetrated a 2x4 but it would ruin a humans day if they were shot. All it takes is 2" of penatration on a person to cause a fatal wound.

What about howdah pistols, though? I have seen original, antique muzzle loading, smoothbore howdahs for sale in calibers from 20 to 16 gauge. What would have made a "tiger stopping" load in one of these? For that matter, these guns were also, according to Firearms of the American West: 1803-1865 by Garavaglia, used for "buffalo running" on horseback. American bison, I believe, are even bigger than tigers - and can be just as dangerous, in the wrong situation. So what sort of load would have been used when these big bore smoothies WERE used on dangerous game?

 

[poordevil]

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/antique_guns/purdey_howdah/howdah.html

 

[DutchmanDick]

Thanks!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Not a lot of powder for such a big ball. I use more in a .44.

 

[KHickam]

Mine is the Elliot Light Dragoon model. I like how it shoots - I got the lock tuned and it has a nice trigger pull (not to heavy not to light)

Keith

 

[F.G. Ford]

It wasn't the ball that killed.............it was the doctor removing it, that did you in.
Old Ford

 

[Dphar]

I have a 60 caliber trade pistol, that with 30 grs of FFg and a .600 is a puny pipsquik on penetration - it just dents a 2X4 at about 10 yds - How in the hell did they kill anything with these things> :shocked2: :shake:

Who said they used this charge? 30 grains would be a charge for a 32 or maybe 40 caliber rifle.

30 grains of FFF is about the minimum I would try in a pistol of this caliber to prevent the ball from bouncing back and hitting the shooter. Yeah. BTDT.
From your account 30 of FF is not enough you probably need at least 50 of FF.

Dan

 

[hanshi]

I use 30grns in my .50 flint pistol just for plinking, 40grns for serious work. Both penetrate well. You need more powder in that .60 and 3f is a better choice in a short barrel. 30 grains of 2f is about the same as 20-25 grains of 3f.

 

[Zoar]

Agreed. 30 grains of 2F is for plinking. especially under such a massive payload. Need to be around 50 - 60 grains of 2F to kill.

 

I have a 60 caliber trade pistol, that with 30 grs of FFg and a .600 is a puny pipsquik on penetration - it just dents a 2X4 at about 10 yds - How in the hell did they kill anything with these things> :shocked2: :shake:

You are lucky you haven't tried to shoot a bear with such a wimpy load. He would want to have a serious chat with you afterwards.

CP

 

[KHickam]

I have a 60 caliber trade pistol, that with 30 grs of FFg and a .600 is a puny pipsquik on penetration - it just dents a 2X4 at about 10 yds - How in the hell did they kill anything with these things> :shocked2: :shake:

You are lucky you haven't tried to shoot a bear with such a wimpy load. He would want to have a serious chat with you afterwards.

CP

Of that I am absolutely certain, and that was the purpose of getting the pistol in the first place. Not that I would go after grizz or anything dangerous with a pistol - but I have been trekking up in some pretty remote places in Montana and Idaho and have come across cougar, black bear, grizz and wolf tracks, and back in 85 I actually had to shoot a cougar in Northern Washington that I am convinced was gonna make a meal of me - I did that with a 50 cal rifle though.

This isn't a bad pistol, but guess I should have waited another month or two and got a pistol from NorthStar West or another maker that is capable of handling 50 gr loads on a limited basis. Oh well, some guy at rendezvous will be happy I will donate it as a prize at Dakotah Territory Sweetwater rendezvous.

For blank work and informal target shooting I am sure it will serve well.

 

[ericb]

Just out of Curiosity - anybody know what the Service Loads specified for these Horse/Dragoon Pistols was at the time? We know the standard 18th Century Paper Cartridge load for most Muskets was around 110gr, which included allowance for priming, but I've never seen anything on Service Pistol Charges...

Eric

 

[poordevil]

Why can't you shoot more than 30 gr out of it? You can play with it at 30 then , when boondocking load up with 60. If you have to use it it will be close anyway.

P

 

[KHickam]

That is the recommend charge from the manufacturer/importer and in an email just the other day he once again recommended a load no heavier than 30-35 grs.

Today just messing with it I got hit with a spent ball in the chest - not much of a thump I can tell you that - luckily. Was just shooting at a target on a 2x4 target frame - missed hit the frame ball came back and hit me in the chest - I was wearing a jacket and heavy shirt - no damage but it didn't make me happy :shocked2:

 

[Celt5494]

I'm with you, in my smoothbore .62 I typically load up between 40-50 gr of fffg. I'd prefer not to be on the business end of that.