PNW muzzleloading gunsmiths

[Texican65]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anybody knows of qualified luthiers or gunsmiths who are reputable and knowledgeable working with Damascus barrels specifically in this region? I live 30 miles outside of Seattle and have a blackpowder shotgun with twist barrels that I need to have inspected…I don’t want to just take it to any old joe down the street.

Thanks very much,

Dow

 

[French Colonial]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anybody knows of qualified luthiers or gunsmiths who are reputable and knowledgeable working with Damascus barrels specifically in this region? I live 30 miles outside of Seattle and have a blackpowder shotgun with twist barrels that I need to have inspected…I don’t want to just take it to any old joe down the street.

Thanks very much,

Dow

Drop a lighted arrow nock down the barrel and take a look, better yet buy a $50.00 bore scope off Amazon and give it a look.

Hold the gun by the wrist with one hand and tap the barrels with a rawhide mallet or similar, if the barrels ring similar to a bell the barrels are still held together well, if there is a dull thud the barrels are coming apart.

If all looks good, go shoot it, we don't need no stinking gunsmith!

 

[Sparkitoff]

Dale Tate at Camanche Hills Club in Ione, CA

Kirby Hoyt in WA at Vintage Doubles is not a "gunsmith" but he has one on retainer and deals in a lot of damascus doubles.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anybody knows of qualified luthiers or gunsmiths who are reputable and knowledgeable working with Damascus barrels specifically in this region? I live 30 miles outside of Seattle and have a blackpowder shotgun with twist barrels that I need to have inspected…I don’t want to just take it to any old joe down the street.

Thanks very much,

Dow

The luthiers that I know of make guitars and violins and do not deal with Damascus shotgun barrels. Although tapping the barrel to listen to the ring tone is a good first step, one would want to take good look at the internal bore for pitting.

 

[Texican65]

Drop a lighted arrow nock down the barrel and take a look, better yet buy a $50.00 bore scope off Amazon and give it a look.

Hold the gun by the wrist with one hand and tap the barrels with a rawhide mallet or similar, if the barrels ring similar to a bell the barrels are still held together well, if there is a dull thud the barrels are coming apart.

If all looks good, go shoot it, we don't need no stinking gunsmith!

Thank you. I performed the “ring” test recently and both barrels ring like a bell.

However, taking a look inside with a light, the interiors are not mirrored and clean, but dingy/rusty with pitting in several places. I’m not trained enough to know whether this is ok or not…would rather an experienced person give her a once over.

Dow

 

[French Colonial]

Thank you. I performed the “ring” test recently and both barrels ring like a bell.

However, taking a look inside with a light, the interiors are not mirrored and clean, but dingy/rusty with pitting in several places. I’m not trained enough to know whether this is ok or not…would rather an experienced person give her a once over.

Dow

Dingy and minor pits do not mean a thing, I shoot my William Moore that looks that way and it shoots fine.

People worry way to much about damascus barrels.

EDIT
Let me add that taking it to a modern gunsmith is a mistake in my book, they know nothing about damascus barrels and quite a few of them are scared of them.

 

[Texican65]

Dingy and minor pits do not mean a thing, I shoot my William Moore that looks that way and it shoots fine.

People worry way to much about damascus barrels.

Interesting…well I appreciate the information. Im not worried about the Damascus, just trying to learn and stay informed. I’ve dabbled in BP over the last 25 years…but never really dedicated any time to the hobby, but I am ready to now.

I know how to shoot my BP rifle…but not so much this shotgun. Is there a tutorial you can recommend? What’s the recommended beginner load for this old twist gun, what kind of BP and how much? What kind of shot/how much? What kind of wads? That’s the kind of stuff I need to know.

Thanks!

Dow

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Texican65, if you can't find the information buried in here, then at least you can have an enjoyable time reading Spence's Blog.

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

 

[Damy2128]

Interesting…well I appreciate the information. Im not worried about the Damascus, just trying to learn and stay informed. I’ve dabbled in BP over the last 25 years…but never really dedicated any time to the hobby, but I am ready to now.

I know how to shoot my BP rifle…but not so much this shotgun. Is there a tutorial you can recommend? What’s the recommended beginner load for this old twist gun, what kind of BP and how much? What kind of shot/how much? What kind of wads? That’s the kind of stuff I need to know.

Thanks!

Dow

The size of powder granules depends mostly on the bore size but before we get into that have you I mounted the barrels and looked at the proof marks? In the period, many gun makers around the world were importing barrels from Belgium.

Interesting…well I appreciate the information. Im not worried about the Damascus, just trying to learn and stay informed. I’ve dabbled in BP over the last 25 years…but never really dedicated any time to the hobby, but I am ready to now.

I know how to shoot my BP rifle…but not so much this shotgun. Is there a tutorial you can recommend? What’s the recommended beginner load for this old twist gun, what kind of BP and how much? What kind of shot/how much? What kind of wads? That’s the kind of stuff I need to know.

Thanks!

Dow

before you get to loads etc, there are a few more checks that need to be done. The barrel wall thickness needs to be measured to ensure basic uniformity. While it is a good sign that no one has polished the bores bright it is still no guarantee that there is enough meat left mid barrel.
While you have the barrels I mounted to check the wall thickness, take a couple of detailed photos on the proof marks. They should be located on the bottom of each barrel near the breech. They will tell a fascinating story. The NRA maintains a database of proof marks.

So you need to know the bore size and if it is choke bored. In addition to powder and shot, you will need a cushion wad between the powder and shot and then an over shot card to keep everything seated in place.
If for instance, the bore measures to be a 12 bore, you want to buy 12 gauge natural cork cushion wads. The overshot card should be the next bore size bigger than the measurement, so a 12 bore shotgun would use an 11 or 10 bore overshot card.
10, 12 and 16 bores use 2F powder. You want to use chilled lead shot. Not magnum lead shot. The magnum shot is harder to resist pellet deformation.
Start off with a square load which is equal parts by volume of shot and powder. I would start with a light 3/4 ounce load of shot initially and go up from there for anything 20 bore and bigger.
You looking to find a load that delivers consistent patterns without any holes in them. Too much powder for instance will blow a hole in the center of the shot pattern.
Good luck and have fun with it.

 

[Polecat_Tom]

You could call
The Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporium
247 South 2nd Street
Springfield, Oregon 97477
Phone: (541) 741-4118

They have a gunsmith.

 

[Cubreac]

There's a gunsmith at Marksman in Puyallup. It's one of the best "unmentionable" shops in our region so they might be able to help. I'd take to Bill at Muzzleloader Supply on River Road in Puyallup first, though. I was in there yesterday to buy some percussion caps. He has some very nice BP rifles, muskets and shotguns in his inventory at the moment. He also has Schuetzen in stock if you need powder.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
There is also Dave Rase in Bremmerton.

[email protected]

dave

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I just figured out what PNW is.

 

[Texican65]

Guys…great information…thank you very much.

Dow

 

[Texican65]

The size of powder granules depends mostly on the bore size but before we get into that have you I mounted the barrels and looked at the proof marks? In the period, many gun makers around the world were importing barrels from Belgium.

before you get to loads etc, there are a few more checks that need to be done. The barrel wall thickness needs to be measured to ensure basic uniformity. While it is a good sign that no one has polished the bores bright it is still no guarantee that there is enough meat left mid barrel.
While you have the barrels I mounted to check the wall thickness, take a couple of detailed photos on the proof marks. They should be located on the bottom of each barrel near the breech. They will tell a fascinating story. The NRA maintains a database of proof marks.

So you need to know the bore size and if it is choke bored. In addition to powder and shot, you will need a cushion wad between the powder and shot and then an over shot card to keep everything seated in place.
If for instance, the bore measures to be a 12 bore, you want to buy 12 gauge natural cork cushion wads. The overshot card should be the next bore size bigger than the measurement, so a 12 bore shotgun would use an 11 or 10 bore overshot card.
10, 12 and 16 bores use 2F powder. You want to use chilled lead shot. Not magnum lead shot. The magnum shot is harder to resist pellet deformation.
Start off with a square load which is equal parts by volume of shot and powder. I would start with a light 3/4 ounce load of shot initially and go up from there for anything 20 bore and bigger.
You looking to find a load that delivers consistent patterns without any holes in them. Too much powder for instance will blow a hole in the center of the shot pattern.
Good luck and have fun with it.

Hi there…

Thanks very much for the detailed information…it’s just what I was after. I also should have posted photos…although I did in another thread. Have included a couple now…showing the proof markings. They appear to be mid century Birmingham, another member has told me. That being the case, does that mean the barrels were made in England? Or only proofed there? I’m not entirely sure how that worked.

It’s a 12 gauge, although I’m not sure if the barrels are choked…I don’t think so, but not certain.

I called and talked to the man at the Puyallup muzzleloading store…I will bring this old girl in and have his guy take a look, and I will also stick up in some things I need.

Thanks again for the advice, it is much appreciated.

Dow

 

[ORBushman]

I just figured out what PNW is.

For those of us who hate the winter rains it means, "Pretty Nasty Weather"

 

[Alexitt]

For those of us who hate the winter rains it means, "Pretty Nasty Weather"

Yeah, working outside this time of year I must agree... Though today qualified as Pretty nice weather... Had my first frost last night...

 

[ORBushman]

Had my first frost last night...

We are currently in a frost watch. Gonna get chilly tonight!

 

[Texican65]

Well..I took her in to the Puyallup Muzzleloading supply today and had Bill give her a once over.

He said that although there is some pitting in the bore, it shouldn’t be anything I can’t clean up. He said that this gun hasn’t been shot very much, and that there is a lot of metal left in the walls of the barrels and not to worry about it being twist barrels.

He recommended I start out with some 1F powder, about 50 grains…and have an equal amount of shot to go along with it. I’d only be using this for quail, grouse…maybe Turkey…and he said that at about 40 yards that’s all I’d need with this gun. I bought all the supplies I needed, except for shot…he was out.

Now on to do some reading in the Black Powder shooters Bible.

Dow

 

[Cubreac]

Well..I took her in to the Puyallup Muzzleloading supply today and had Bill give her a once over.

That's great. Bill is a wealth of knowledge and extremely generous with it. Good luck with the grouse and turkeys.