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Please someone school me on smoothbores

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kid_couteau

32 Cal.
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Hi All

I have shot a lot of percussion revolvers in CAS shoots and some Hawkens and such in my life but I have never owned a smoothbore.

So my question is...what is the difference between a smoothbore and a shotgun?

Not being cheeky, I just don't know.

Thank you
KC
 
Bore size and choke mostly. The main difference is that the smoothbore will be sized for a single projectile (.50 cal for example) instead of potentially choked for a shot load. Nothing would stop you from shooting shot out of a smoothbore or theoretically vice versa, but a smoothbore with shot will have no choke, and a shotgun will have poor accuracy with a single projectile because it has to be small enough to load through the choked muzzle.
 
Ahhhhh ok thank you

So more or less old trade guns were not shotguns but they were smoothbores.
I always figured they were shotguns. Figured sell the natives a cheap shotgun for furs was the plan
Well I learned something today
 
Ahhhhh ok thank you

So more or less old trade guns were not shotguns but they were smoothbores.
I always figured they were shotguns. Figured sell the natives a cheap shotgun for furs was the plan
Well I learned something today
Someone that knows more than me could probably answer that one in more depth, but the way I understand it a lot of the older smoothbore muskets, which were larger calibers to begin with and very close to common shotgun sizes, were simply chopped down and sold as "fowlers". With the rate at which military technology was advancing, the older surplus guns could be had for next to nothing. Chopping down a musket was much cheaper than making a new gun of any configuration. Bannerman built an empire on it.

Whether you consider one a shotgun or not depends more on the user than anything. Whatever you can cram down the bore will come back out, whether it be a ball, buck and ball, or shot. Not much different than shotguns today shooting slugs, vs dedicated slug guns. They're basically the same thing but used in a different application. I'm sure most of the trade guns were loaded with whatever was suitable for the game they were after.
 
Ahhhhh ok thank you

So more or less old trade guns were not shotguns but they were smoothbores.
I always figured they were shotguns. Figured sell the natives a cheap shotgun for furs was the plan
Well I learned something today
Fine Fowling guns, single and double barrels have been made since seventeenth century. choking were not yet invented.
Most guns made for the trade were inexpensively made but were made to patterns and had to past the same proofing. And some very fine ‘chiefs’ guns were also used in trade. Between 1791 and 1821 the US contracted with rifle makers to make rifles for the fur trade, and these were largely the same quality as civilian guns.
Men who could afford a fine Fowling gun also might have a stag gun or heavier, so fowlers were made with a emphasis on light.
Run of the mill smoothbores that might be called on to shoot shot one day and ball the next would be heavier.
Muskets were made specifically for military.
Civilians often had a gun of ‘musket caliber’ but some what lighter
Shot gun is more of a nineteenth century word, by that time inexpensive civilian double barrels were being made. Sold by the barrel full to westerners and cheaper then a rifle. And most used just for shot.
With the coming of breachloading a choke became common.
Small game and Fowling, especially water fowl became a recreation hunting, and the longer reach was much dot after.
Should you be able to go to a trading post,that servers both whites and Indians and those that served mostly Indians would offer ball and shot in many sizes from small snipe and grouse shot up to beaver and swan shot.
 
Smoothbores include:
Smooth-bored muskets
Fowling pieces
Smooth-bored trade guns
Smooth-bored militia guns
What we call “smooth rifles” - guns built like rifles and then you look and see it’s a smoothbore
Single and double barreled shotguns. I think the term “shotgun” was rarely used in the flintlock era for flintlock smoothbore guns. I think the terms fowler and fowling pieces gave way to the term shotgun in the percussion era. It’s certainly possible that having choke has something to do with guns being termed shotguns in the period. Trade guns, fowlers, and shotguns usually have tapered barrels that are quite thin at the muzzle. Muskets, buck and ball guns ( militia guns) and smooth rifles typically have barrels with more wall thickness at the muzzle.

“Smoothbore” is the big umbrella.
 
Hi All

I have shot a lot of percussion revolvers in CAS shoots and some Hawkens and such in my life but I have never owned a smoothbore.

So my question is...what is the difference between a smoothbore and a shotgun?

Not being cheeky, I just don't know.

Thank you
KC
Smooth rifles were used just like rifles, with round ball, only they were smooth and had less accurate range. Larger-bored muskets could use bird shot or ball, like 12 or 20 gauge. The Trade Muskets are a perfect example of something that could use either depending upon what you're hunting or fighting. I'm sure many guys will give you more examples, and this is a good place to get good info!
 
And eye sight was largely uncorrected. A fat ball in a smoothie held center of a brown deer shaped blob will make for a venison supper. And works for a guy who had a tough time seeing sights.
 
Hi All

I have shot a lot of percussion revolvers in CAS shoots and some Hawkens and such in my life but I have never owned a smoothbore.

So my question is...what is the difference between a smoothbore and a shotgun?

Not being cheeky, I just don't know.

Thank you
KC
At the most basic level, nothing. In individual cases cases, the differences are nuances or subtle differences in use. The term smoothbore is more generic than a smooth bored gun that is not intended to always or almost always used for shot.

A musket in the 1700's is a smoothbore intended for use with round ball.

A smooth rifle is a firearm that looks like a rifle, but has a smooth bored barrel. Effective with ball at relatively short ranges and with shot, depending on quarry.

A fowling gun has a smooth bored barrel built to be light and easy handling for use with shot loads. Very seldom, such a smooth bored gun would be used with round ball.

A shot gun is purpose built for use only with shot done to features such as constructive chokes. This is a very late development of the technology.

All smooth bored barrels, be they for a shot gun, a smooth rifle, or a smooth bored musket have no rifling.
 
Smoothbore were quite popular with farmers and others as they could fire shot or use bullets namely round ball. Smoothbores could be accurate enough out to a hundred yards or more to hit a man sized target with a ball. Thus they could use it for self defense, big game hunting or bird and small game hunting too. Most big game hunting was really at short range less than 50 yards more like less than 25 yards. Even today shotguns are still very popular as you can fire slugs, buckshot or birdshot in them. The shotguns eith adjustable chokes offer more versatility too. Modern slugs can be amazingly accurate too.

But as stated already a smoothbore gun has no rifling in the barrel.
 
Hi All

I have shot a lot of percussion revolvers in CAS shoots and some Hawkens and such in my life but I have never owned a smoothbore.

So my question is...what is the difference between a smoothbore and a shotgun?

Not being cheeky, I just don't know.

Thank you
KC
The difference between a smoothbore and a shotgun .... Nothing . They are the same thing just two different names for the same gun . Wow ! Some of these answers ! If I asked for a shotgun or a scatter gun ...same thing , just two different names . If I asked someone to grab me a shotgun in the 18th century ....they would have no idea what I was talking about , proper name would be fowler ... Just like if today I pointed to a gun rack and hollered at you to grab me a fowler .... You'd be like " what the &%!! is that ?" . Just different names . Then ....you can get into specifics ...18 th century .... A military arm that has a smooth bored barrel is a musket , a civilian smoothbored gun used for hunting is a fowler , a smoothbore fowler that is specifically made for the fur trade is called a trade gun but referring to it as a fowler is fine , it is , calling it a trade gun is just getting more specific . Say , its 18 th century ....I holler " Grab me a fowler " ... You go over to the rack , two are there ....you'd say " You want the fish belly or the trade gun ?" ... Your just getting more specific is all ... Modern day ...." Grab me a shotgun !" ..... " Which one ? You want the 870 or the Ithaca ?"
 
@Rob M., if you asked someone in the 18th or 19th century to grab you a fowler, they would return with a person who shot fowl. If you want a gun to shoot birds, you would ask for a fowling gun. Now we have been calling a fowling gun a fowler and we understand that term. Or as you pointed out a different name for the same gun. When we want our rifle, we don't ask for a hunter to shoot deer?
 
@Rob M., if you asked someone in the 18th or 19th century to grab you a fowler, they would return with a person who shot fowl. If you want a gun to shoot birds, you would ask for a fowling gun. Now we have been calling a fowling gun a fowler and we understand that term. Or as you pointed out a different name for the same gun. When we want our rifle, we don't ask for a hunter to shoot deer

@Rob M., if you asked someone in the 18th or 19th century to grab you a fowler, they would return with a person who shot fowl. If you want a gun to shoot birds, you would ask for a fowling gun. Now we have been calling a fowling gun a fowler and we understand that term. Or as you pointed out a different name for the same gun. When we want our rifle, we don't ask for a hunter to shoot deer?
Good gawd ..... You all would try to complicate a sign post !. Read the original question ... Fowler , fowling gun , fowling piece ....they are all used in colonial writing . You are SO right Sir . I made up all that before because trying to look smart to all of you brilliant folks on this forum its VERY important to me . Forgive me for my incredible ignorance . You are so intelligent !! Its amazing ! Carry on ....
 
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Good grief, @Rob M. To think I tried to agree with you as the use of fowler as the name of a fowling gun is simply the use of a different name for the same item. You do know a great deal about the smooth bored guns and I respect your expertise.

Ad as you said the period advertisements used many names to describe their wares. So, let's agree to have a difference of opinion.

From a thread from 2017:

The Pennsylvania Gazette
February 9, 1769
IMPORTED ...from London, Bristol and Liverpool.... rifle, fowling piece, and common gun barrels; brass mounting furniture for ditto; common, flat and half round fence gun locks;
 
Think about it this way A farmer or landowner only had a certain amount of money. A smooth bore was able to be used for either shoot or for a ball. For limited money he got both for the $$$$ Not a bad deal :ThankYou:
And a smoothbore was much cheaper t h an a rifled gun up front. Think about hand rifling a barrel
 
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