Penetration test for RB n Shot

[Kentuckywindage]

i agree. remove your head and take a deep breath.

You only like using blackpowder because its your powder of choice. As for being easier to clean, no way. with my flintlock its a hot bath to get the stuff out of there. With triple 7, 2 patches soaked with 409 and im done.

Which powder is cheaper? $15 for goex and a 2 and a half our drive one way, times $3.50 a gallon, in a truck that gets 19mpg. VS 1 hour drive round trip and only 2 gallons of fuel, $24 for triple 7 which my rifle prefers to shoot conicals well. Trip 7 is alot cheaper for me.

But i'll give goex a try in 'er and compare. I also prefer triple7 and pyrodex over Goex. I was only able to get one shot before i had to pull out a rod and rubber mallet to smack the bullet out of the barrel. That goex stuff made a crud ring in the bore and i wasnt able to push through it.

 

[roundball]

"...That goex stuff made a crud ring in the bore and i wasnt able to push through it..."

I don't have a dog in this fight, but in case someone reads this who doesn't know any better, Goex doesn't cause "crud rings"...most subs do but Goex black powder does not.

Not challenging that you might have experienced a "crud ring" but if you did it most assuredly was not caused by Goex...there was something else going on that caused it...maybe residue from certain chemical cleaning agents...maybe petroleum based oils / lubes in the bore...or used on conicals or patches...whatever...but it wasn't caused by Goex.

:v

 

[Kentuckywindage]

It was thick crudded powder through out the bore, mainly at the last 2-3" of the breech area. After that happened i went back to shooting the RS. I also get this in my traditions flintlock and have to run a loaded doped up bore butter patch to keep the fouling down.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Hey Dude take a chill pill, you're gonna pop a blood vessel! There's always been idiots in the woods and always will be, difference between 150 years or so back and now is that the NDN's got the old timer's hair! Maybe the newbies will flip out of their treestands! And I know exactly what you speak of when you rant about 'em crashing thru the woods scaring game off. Jeez! :haha:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

No kiddin lol. When it comes to idiots crashing through the woods, feel free to take my step brothers with you. You're guaranteed not to see any game with them along :rotf: .
Did some scouting with one of my step brothers, im walking quietly and heres dummy behind me stepping on downed timber and then talking loud and laughing. Really upsets you when you're doing your part at keeping quiet and someone else ruins your spot. Got another story about some city slickers on 4 wheelers a few years ago but im going to keep that one to myself. I can already feel my face turning red from anger.

 

[roundball]

OK, not a crud "ring"...sounds like fouling just building up in the bore and getting dry.

For what it's worth, two lubes I've found to be excellent are:
TC's Natural Lube 1000 Bore & Patch Lube
Hoppes No9 PLUS BP Cleaning Solvent & Patch Lube

NL100 is a paste and the only lube I use for hunting as it can sit on powder all day and not affect it.
At the range, for most of the year here, humidity is high enough that I shoot my 50 shot weekend range sessions without wiping between shots at all because the fouling stays so soft it gets wiped off the bore walls every time the next patched ball is seated.

To do that in the drier, low humidity months of winter I need a wetter patch so I use Hoppe's...and it's actually incredible stuff...the bore is still essentially clean after 50 shots.

If you're ever interested in retrying Goex, try it with Hoppes No9 PLUS BP patch lube.
I open a bag of 100 patches and squirt 2-3 squirts of Hoppes into the bag, reseal it, squish it around to ensure the patches are soaked then open the bag and squeeze out excess (if there is any)...I use them at the range just slightly glistening damp / wet...fabulous stuff.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I have to use it for my flintlock so thanks for the lube tips.

Theres also one thing ive always wondered about. Last summer i was sighting in my flintlock " first year i had it" It was in the low 90's and the patches i had with borebutter did great, but after the 3ed shot, My shots were all over the place. Switch to dry patches and im back in action. its like, once the bore butter on the patches melted from the extreme heat, The rifle didnt shoot for manure. i'd like to fix that problem. I do most of my shooting during the summer and need all the practice i can get without having to deal with this issue. What do you think? Maybe a felt wad?

 

[roundball]

Here in the Carolinas it's always in the 90's during June/July/August and I've never found that outdoor temps by themselves caused inaccuracy...yes, the heat will definitely soften the lube in the patches but it's not a problem, oir at least has never been a problem for me.
When shooting a range session even in relatively cool 70's, the barrel heats up enough to soften the lube a few seconds after it's seated anyway.

Humidity seems to be the single biggest weather factor I've experienced causing an influence on shooting...it affects fouling which then affects accuracy.
I'm under the imprression that while you may have been shooting in 90's temps out there, that the humidity is generally still fairly low/dry in Colorado?
It takes no time, less than a minute, for powder residue to suck moisture out of the air through the muzzel and vent...if the humidity is high, the fouling will almost immediately become semi-liquid soft...if the humidity is low, the fouling won't get enough moisture to stay soft and it dries out on the bore walls instead, gets hard.

A hard piece of fouling can get pressed in place by a subsequent shot like a steam roller pressing down asphault and that buildup can cause accuracy problems.

Running a couple dry patches through it and the stiff abrasiveness of the dry patch may have scrubbed off the fouling, either while seating or being fired out, and accuracy returned after that...really hard to say without being there.

Try wiping the bore with a damp patch up & down once between each shot and see if you get better consistency that way...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I guess i'll just have to do like you said and start swabbing between shots. or atleast after every second shot at most. Havnt shot my flintlock since november. Really want to get back to shooting that thing.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You may be closer to being right than you think. I just received the Hunting Accident Reports for 2005 for Illinois, and there were more idiots hurt falling out of trees than where hurt by being shot.

And, some people question if there is a GOD?????

 

[paulvallandigham]

Well said, ROUND BALL! High humidity softens the residue, but can create " soup "; low humidity produces cake in the barrel like concrete. I keep a bore brush handy if I underestimate the low humidity on a day with bright sunlight, and need it to scratch out the crud. Otherwise, I have to use a couple of wet patches, then dry the barrel, and the clear the flashchannel, or vent, and again check the barrel for any crud. Its a lot easier to simply clean between shots. I do find shooting in high humidity a bit of a challenge, as we normally only see it here in the " dog days of August ".

 

[longcruise]

Don't waste your brain cells fretting over this.

I killed a good size mule deer doe with a .50 RB and 60 grains of FF at about 60 yards. Ball passed through and devastated the lungs with the deer dropping on the spot.

Anytime you ram a .45 or larger ball through the lungs of a deer, it's going to drop pretty quick.

 

[roundball]

IMO think 60grns might be a tad on the light side as an all around powder charge recommendation for deer hunting.

I assumed he was looking for a more practical overall hunting load, one that could handle greater distances and some bone with confidence.
I for one wouldn't feel 100% confident of repeatability with a 60 grain charge at 100yds and the possibility of a shoulder bone...I use 50grns as a plinker load for tin cans at the range.

I have killed a doe and a 5 pointer with a mere 40grn charge and a 128grn .45cal ball...BUT...they were only 30-40 FEET away while I was sitting squirrel hunting...easy perfect heart shots...but the exception, not the rule and I couldn't recommend it as an all around deer hunting load.

Just my .02 cents :v

 

[Blizzard of '93]

My neighbor, his brother and daddy all flipped out of tree stands; score - trees 3, hunters 0. his daddy was hurt bad wirh broke ribs and back injury. Doubt they reported any but the bad injury. :shake: He was in hospital.

 

[roundball]

I've sold 6 used Loc-Ons during the past couple months, and two brand new ones left to go...I no longer bow hunt so I don't need to keep climbing up into trees and taking that risk at age 61.

I've gradually ground-sat more and more the past few years and have killed more big bucks than I ever have so as long as you mind the wind about where you hunt one day to the next, ground sitting is no problem at all with a muzzleloader.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

You'll never see me in a tree stand. You may see me IN a tree but i guarantee you that i wont be more than 6-7 feet off the ground. I hate heights! :blah:

 

[Slamfire]

Energy, at least the kinetic energy possesed by a moving object does not kill game. Game is killed by tissue damage. It can happen quite rapidly depending on what tissue is damaged. Shoot off the aorta at the top of the heart and the brain starves for oxygen in 10 to 15 seconds. Such damage also triggers adrenalin rush, so the animal can travel quite a distance before dying. A double lung hit takes a bit longer, but the animal in essense drowns, in it's own blood. This kind of damage is the result of velocity, not energy. A long time ago, another reloader and I built a ballistic pendulum. It told us the velocity of our loads by moving when struck by a bullet. I could, with a single finger move the pendulum farther than any load we tested. The difference was penetration, I couldn't get any with my finger. It is my thought that penetration required a certain amount of velocity, and the distance of the penetration was controled by momentum, an arrow could penetrate as far as any bullet. Many theorize that expansion is required to kill, but a modern .25 caliber bullet is doing excellent to expand to .50 caliber, the same size as your .490 round ball begins with. If your round ball didn't expand at all it would still create the same wound channel. One more thing velocity does, is carry the shock wave of supersonic speed into the tissue disrupting it all out of proportion to the size of the projectile itself. Just watch the high speed films of a bullet traveling through a block of ballistic geletin, and you'll see what I mean.
As to how much powder is required to kill deer, remember the Henry rifle used a very small powder charge, contained in the base of the bullet itself, yet it killed game for those who used it. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Getting back to the question of penetration, I don't bother testing penetration of balls because I know that anything over .45 caliber will have "enough". I shot a doe mule deer with the wife's little .50 carbine with 24" barrel and only 50 grains 3f. At about fifty yards it was a head on shot, entered just above the brisket and I found the ball in a hind quarter.
As to birdshot, the test has long been to shoot through both sides of a STEEL can. I believe the tuna cans mentioned by one member are aluminium and I think you'll find that your target stapler will drive right through that, not much of a test in my opinion. I save my old Goex powder cans for that testing, although it may excite a fellow shooter to see you shooting at a can of powder! :grin:

 

[faw3]

To add to roundball's ...two years ago I sat with a friend that shot a deer about 60 to 70 yrds out, nice rack ect, not so nice was the doe he killed 15 yards behind it, and that was with a 50 PRB. FRED :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

"...shoot off the aorta at the top of the heart and the brain starves for oxygen in 10 to 15 seconds..."

Agree...I have come to think of hunting with a PRB as a longer range broadhead...a PRB has nowhere close to the energy required to produce any hydrostatic shock power of high speed CF rifles...puts a premium on shot placement into regions when major blood loss can occur, just like with bow hunting.