Pedersoli 2nd Model Brown Bess

[Artificer]

OK, sorry if anyone does not understand what the "King's Cypher" is. It is the engraved Crown over the "GR" on the lock plate.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Lets not forget the Dutch muskets that were supplied to the British forces during the F&I War. At the start of the F&I / Seven Years War, new muskets were in short supply to the British Forces. Kings Pattern Muskets were supplied to the forces fighting on the Continent and perhaps as many as 4,500 Dutch Military muskets were provided to Colonial and British units. By the end of the Seven Years War, British Armories were providing more King's Pattern Muskets to the Colonies.

A Dutch musket would be a good choice for a Provincial soldier at the start of the AWI. The Dutch muskets would have come out of storage for use by American militia.

Presently there are limited sources for Dutch Muskets. The Rifle Shoppe offers parts sets. There may be a long wait for a complete order.

 

[Artificer]

Good point and SOME of the Dutch Muskets resembled "King's Pattern" Arms to some degree.

After a war, "Dutch" Guns were the FIRST guns that British Ordnance sold off as surplus to the trade.

Yet it would be a lot more difficult to turn a Pedersoli into a Dutch Arm as opposed to a gun "sold to the trade."

Gus

 

[Artificer]

When the late Kit Ravenshear used to "de-farb" Pedersoli Muskets, he made them look like shortened Long Land Pattern muskets. His modifications included retrofitting a Long Land sideplate, add brass to the buttplate to give it the correct long tang, weld in the incorrect lock markings and reengrave them with a proper date. He used this side plate from TRS. http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/new_items/(199).htm

However, to make a Pedersoli Bess into a Commercial Musket, one really only has to get rid of the King's Cypher and that could be done by VERY careful filing or filling in the Cypher like Kit did by welding and then just filing the plate flush. If one wished, one could also add the TRS sideplate linked above, but it would not be completely necessary for a Commercial Musket.

Gus

Edited to add: Here is a link to a Musket that Kit modified to look like a shortened LLP musket. http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/KRB2.shtml

 

[The Baron]

Congratulations on your new musket!

It was a Brown Bess that got me hooked on buying a flintlock. I've been an avid turkey hunter for a long time, and started doing it with a modern gun like most folks. After several years I was finding it too easy. I'd tag my 2 toms quickly, then "guide" friends and clients. Something was missing for me. I considered a bow, but I like guns too much. Then, one of a group of clients I had taken said he wanted to try taking a turkey with a flintlock. I had never seen a flintlock in real life. Turns out he and one of the other guests did reenactments. The other guys said it couldn't be done so that was my challenge and I told him to bring his flintlock. Well, he turned up with a nice 'Bess replica (a custom piece, I wish I had paid more attention to his gun as I'd find it extremely interesting now). To the jeers and guffaws of the others I took him out and God blessed my lucky rump with a tom that decided to walk right to him on a woods road, looking for the sexy little "hen" calling from 30 yards beyond. The sight and sound of that flintlock going off in the morning woods was all it took and I HAD to have one. So, I don't (yet) own a 'Bess, but they hold a special place for me.

 

[Artificer]

I bought my first flintlock in 1974 after returning from my first trip to the Primitive Range at Friendsip, IN. I could not afford a correct custom rifle to shoot. I wanted to do a Continental Marine Sergeant's impression, so I bought the Navy Arms (Pedersoli) Brown Bess "Carbine." Now that barrel is really too short for a Sergeant's Carbine and it was the musket caliber instead of the .66 cal. of Sergeant's Carbines, but it was the most authentic thing available.

I shot that gun with some shot loads in matches, but didn't really develop a good load for it, though it still would hit clay pigeons that were sometimes thrown in the primitive matches. I got a LOT of service out of that Carbine from shooting PRB's in matches, though. I finally traded it off in the early 2,000's to get my full length Pedersoli Bess.

Gus

 

[Enfield1]

I've had my Pedersoli Bess for about ten years, now. I have loved every minute of it. It has always been a sure fire sparker (no pun intended) with quality black English flints. I started out trying to shoot .735 balls from her, but after 4 or 5 rounds, it was difficult to even get a ball down the barrel due to the fowling. I cut back to a .710 ball and things got a little better. I have now find my best load to be a .680 round ball with 100 grains of 2FG in a paper cartridge. I can now go though an entire loaded cartridge box worth of ammo without having to swab or wash out the bore and have pretty good accurary while I am doing it. I have enjoyed the "journey" with my Bess and look forward to many good years with her in the future. :hatsoff:

 

[SgtErv]

I got it today.

Boy it's in immaculate shape. It appears to be unfired; there was one mark on the frizzen. There are some handling marks and little bits of rust as advertised (one by the muzzle and another by the lock - looks like it was carried a lot but not actually used.) The bore is in perfect shape!

The factory markings are much more discreet than I anticipated. I'll leave them on. You'd have to be within 6 feet to make them out.

It's solidly constructed and has a good wood to metal fit all around. I got a darn good deal on this girl.

I'll have a range report and some pictures up soon. If it doesn't rain this weekend I'll get it out.

The fort director has some .715 and .69 balls he'll make a deal with me for. Good to go. That is a massive musket ball!

 

[SgtErv]

The biggest question I have is how your cleaning regimens may different with this. I have a worm and a button jag. It's looking like I'll be using tow, because a jag and patch doesn't seem to be cutting it.

Thoughts? 12 gauge attachments work well, so I may need an adaptor.(I did get one with two female 10x32 ends to attach a jag)

 

[willowbilly]

I have discovered that a stainless steel 12 gauge bore brush works very well for me. Hoppe's calls them Tornado Style Shotgun Bore Brush.

(In my experience the standard brass brushes get caught in the barrel easily and they wear out quickly.)

I use the stainless brush dry to swab the barrel after several shots. After running the brush a couple time through the barrel point it down and tap the buttstock to empty powder residue. Doing that I have been able to shoot dozens of paper cartridges without any problems.

After a day of shooting I swab the barrel with the dry stainless brush tapping the residue out. I then use bore cleaner, a stainless brush, a swab and cleaning patches I cut from any left over natural cloth, old tee shirts, blue jeans, &c.

I leave the barrel in the stock and remove the lock and give it a through cleaning and then lightly lube.

I use welding tip cleaners to clean the touch hole.

I have a .45 cal brass brush that I have bent so that the bristles will clean the very back of the chamber.

When done cleaning I put a very light coat of oil on the inside of the barrel.

Every now and then I will pull the barrel from the stock to check for and clean any corrosion and lube the complete outside of the Barrel.

I used to use water but found it too messy and did not like getting water between the barrel and stock. I prefer not to remove the barrel often as it is hard on the stock to remove and replace the pins.

The stainless brush cleans up great with soap and water.

 

[SgtErv]

Thanks HogFamily!

I use the bronze brush on humid days at the range rifle shooting. It's a pinned barrel too, and I've taken it off once in six months for the same reason, just to give it a once over and lay on a coat of Barricade

Reckon I need to configure the attachments and adapters to use 12 gauge with the ramrod, because my shotgun rods aren't near tall enough lol

Meantime, I did get a jag/patch combo that fits tight. She had some old oil for storage (Ballistol judging by the smell ha!) I managed to get it out as such so figure I could do the same for a cleaning. Temporary fix. The worm and tow work too

Big smoothie like this is a different animal than a .50 cal rifle, but they're similar in some ways. Maybe easier to clean? Might be.

Thanks for all the help thus far!

Paper cartridge shooters - you guys prime first, historically correct? I may use a primer for safety reasons. The lock is in good shape, not worried about half cock failing, but, hey, I'm not withstanding a French assault, either, so may play it safe lol

 

[willowbilly]

I use an adapter to get 12 gauge modern brushes to work on my BB rod. I also have a brass rod, (actually had to buy two sets so it would be long enough), that I use for cleaning. With adapters it will take just about any cleaning brush, tip, &c.

I purchased several adapters from Track of the Wolf including metric to standard and vise versa for the BB and brass rod.


IMHO if your firelock is in good working condition it should not go off half cocked... :grin:

I have heard the stories of folks having the powder go off when pouring it down a barrel because of an ember. All of those stories I have heard have been the "It happened to a friend's uncle's brother-in-law's friend's cousin..." Not sayin' it doesn't happen just sayin'.

Best to keep your hands as clear as possible and muzzle in a safe direction. I would not put my face in front of the muzzle either.

Oh yeah, you will be hooked firing the BB. Then you will NEED all the accouterments to go with it. Then you will need a Charleville, then a fowler...all with the proper accouterments.


This is some of what I copy onto the newsprint for paper cartridges.

 

[Artificer]

Over the years I've accumulated maybe 3 aluminum takedown cleaning kits for shotguns. Look for them at yard sales, etc. and they are REAL cheap there. On one of the sections, I turned the threads off in a lathe, so it would fit in an electric hand drill. When the bore gets sort of dark, I take a worn 12 gauge bronze bore brush and wrap it with OOO steel wool, oil it good and use the electric drill to spin it as I run it around and in and out of the barrel. Polishes the bore nicely.

Using a primer to prime after loading is an additional safety feature for live cartridges. If you wish to prime from the live cartridge I suggest you practice with blank cartridges FIRST and really get the hang of it safely and then use a live cartridge if you want.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

When you shoot blanks you can use the standard drill, and prime first, then pour the powder down the barrel. You use a blank made of 100 grains of 3Fg, and some of that is used to prime so the main charge without anything on top of it is a tad under 100 grains. You get a nice pop with that load. If you use 2Fg you don't get a pop, you get a fooommp sound.

IF you are going to shoot live rounds, since you're ramming, then of course you prime after loading from a horn or something like that.

As for "cook offs" from embers down the bore..., I've seen it happen. These were all at timed, speed firing events, and very few folks shoot that many rounds that fast. Luckily it always happened as soon as the powder was added to the barrel and before the rammer was pulled. The fingers of the shooter were toasted a bit. So in your case I wouldn't worry.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm with Dave on the suggestion to prime first only when shooting blank loads. Live fire, with that large ball, I prime from a small horn. That's our unit's procedure for firing.

Note that during reenactments we do not pack the paper from the cartridge to make a bigger pop. The ramrods are only pulled for the safety inspection to hear the ping from a metal ramrod hitting a solid breech. Packing the cartridge paper over the powder for a wad is something you can do when you are under the deliberate process of explaining what you are doing.

When we participate in Woods Walks and are loading live cartridges, the procedure is to tear the paper to access the powder, pour the powder down the barrel, stuff the cartridge with the ball in the muzzle, the empty paper becomes a wad and cleaning scraper, and ram the ball home. When we are ready to fire we prime either from a small priming horn or from a blank cartridge we keep in the cartridge box for the use as priming.

When buying adapters for your shotgun brushes and mops, measure your threads on your ramrod first. Some Pedersoli Short Land Pattern Muskets are metric and others are USA standard 10-32.

I am positive that you will enjoy your new to you Bess.

 

[SgtErv]

Good to see how everyone operates. Blank rounds at the fort are loaded with the rammer, primed first. I'm aware of the battle re-enactment safety measure. A steel rammer would make a rather nasty projectile :shocked2:

It'll be pouring the rain all this weekend, so I'll have some time to track down an extra shotgun cleaning section.

Cool idea on the drill!

Thanks for the newspaper pic HogFamily! It's the little details like that which make for a cool experience.

And yeah...on the additional 'stuff'....I'm already hunting for a good cartridge box as the first necessary accoutrement beyond ramrod attachments.

If you guys have seen my other thread about being a VA border militiaman in the 1770s. That Sunday best can double for an eastern seaboard militiaman too :grin: . I see where this is going

 

I am not into reenacting (if my gun goes off there is a piece of lead heading down range) so I haven't done the research to know if this is 100% correct, but...,.
The cartridge box for my NSW fusil is simply a block of wood painted black with a leather flap nailed on the back. In other words, a pretty simple DIY project. Not as fancy as an all leather one, but, I would guess, acceptable for a militiaman. For a strap check out Turkey Foot Traders and get some of their hemp webbing.
If I am way off base on this, we both should know shortly.

 

[Artificer]

Randy,

What you just described could have been a British Army Cartridge Box, that we call a "Belly Box" today, and just modified to be slung from the shoulder with the hemp sling. So, yes, it is absolutely correct as one type of 18th century cartridge carrying device for Militia.

Gus

 

[spudnut]

Ive owned two japanese besses that I wish I still had.The first reenactment group I was involved in poo pooed it because they all used Italian made( 30 years ago) ,I later bought a Narregansett Arms LLP that I recently tried to sell but thank providence noone bought it,Im sure I would have regretted that also.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, you would have regretted selling the Naragansett. They were made from Rifle Shoppe parts (IIRC) and are one of the most historically correct LLP made.