Pedersoli 2nd Model Brown Bess

[jon math]

I looked at that one for a longtime this weekend, thanks for saving me I’m sure I’ll end up with a military weapon sooner or later I’m just not sure what I want. I’m still holding out hope Pedersoil with make a Baker rifle, if not a three band Enfield keeps coming to the top of my list. Best of luck with your Bess.

 

[SgtErv]

I took that bullet for a few folks I think :thumbsup:

I don't imagine a belly box would be comfortable. I'll probably make a shoulder carried box, as a militiaman would have had stipulations for its design and perhaps not much else. There are also a few down at the fort I've been repairing that I could probably purchase for a donation

 

[Artificer]

Just remember to make or have the wood block with holes made before you attempt to make the pouch. Learned that from others who made the pouch first and then the wood block would not fit in the pouch.

Gus

 

[Pete G]

SgtErv,
These guns were not meant to be "aimed" only fired on command with a jerk on the trigger. Aiming was considered immoral and akin to murder. Recruits were encouraged to close their eyes when firing as well.

I have never had to concentrate on jerking the trigger and closing the eyes. It just seems to come naturally. :rotf:

 

[Grenadier1758]

When you drill the hole for the wood block, use a drill diameter of 7/8". Those 3/4" diameter cartridges fit so much easier. A bit of personal experience there.

 

[Artificer]

Good point, also makes it easier to find a period Tin Oil Bottle that will fit the holes.

Gus

 

[spudnut]

Ive been shooting the Bess for 30 years,Any Ped Ive ever fired was not that bad of a pull

 

[willowbilly]

I make paper cartridges for my Pedersoli BB.

This takes a little time but it works well for me and is fun for my boys and I.

I use newsprint paper that comes on pads. I cut into printer size, 8.5 X 11, I copy onto them pages from newspapers ca 1774 / 75. (Google)

I use a .69 cal ball with 100 grains BP.

Lots of YouTube vids on making paper cartridges for BB.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Dear SgtErv:

1. I am a historical interpreter. How to take off the factory markings/ stamping? Not sure if I want to do this if it makes the gun any less safe, just wondering what folks preferred with this.

Don't worry about taking off the markings. The serial number for your musket which gives you its manufacture date AND allows it to be returned to you by law enforcement if it's ever stolen...should stay on the barrel...so you might as well leave the rest (imho) The only cosmetic change that I'd do if it was mine is to add a rounded side plate to make it look more like the musket you would've had as a colonial. Even if the Pedersoli SLP was a 100% perfect copy of a SLP King's Musket (and DeWitt Bailey has done some new research and it appears that the Pedersoli is not as bad as once suspected), the SLP's in the AWI came over in very small numbers with top notch British units, and were not in North America during the F&I...., so would be very unlikely to have been in the hands of a colonial on the Western frontier.

The rifle shop offers a rounded side plate for the Navy Arms Bess; I don't know if it will work for the Pedersoli.

2. I hear there's a heavy trigger pull. Is this something owners have lived with or had modified?

The Pedersoli Bess normally has an acceptable trigger pull...while the Pedersoli Charleville normally has a hellacious main spring and trigger pull.

I personally would only use very fine emory paper and oil and gently polish the tumbler, and the seer tip, and be satisfied with what I got. It's very very easy to FUBAR up a sear by doing more than that.

3. Loads - I'm going to start with a .735 ball and .020 patch. 70gr Goex 2F. Plan on doing paper cartridges too. What do your alls like?

The folks are right, wait until you get the musket before you order tight fitting musket ball. Or order .690 and then adjust the cartridges so when rolled up they fit well.

LD

 

[SgtErv]

Hogfamily - That is too cool! I've got some cartridge paper ordered from Roy Najecki. I wish I would have seen this first haha. I hear you. Sometimes getting the details is part of the fun.

Dave - Good calls all around. I think a .69 ball in cartridge would be approaching something more along the lines of historical performance and capability. Pedersoli had a video on their blog where they investigated the possibility that musket rounds were much smaller than the bore diameter to allow for easy, fast loading in fouled bores.
And as far as the markings go, pretty sure I'm going to leave them. Thanks for getting me thinking of another reason to do so.

Thanks gents. It arrives this week and I am stoked. It's too bad it's going to be pouring the rain all weekend!

 

[Artificer]

Dave,

An excellent post as usual and a GREAT point about leaving the serial number on for LE use to return a stolen musket or even make sure you get your own musket when arms are stacked.

I definitely agree with what you said about the use of SLP's, but that is only if you don't consider the Pedersoli as anything but a less than authentic copy of an SLP.

If you consider the Pedersoli as a less than accurate copy of a period civilian made Contract Musket, though, it changes things a might to a good deal. Wilson and others were known for making Contract Muskets with the barrel lengths that were ordered and some were ordered at 42" or cut down to that length here in the colonies. As a Contract Musket, it would also explain the Grice Marking on the lock plate. We know many British Arms were cut down to that length either by British Ordnance or at some Repair Depots here in America during the FIW.

Besides what Colonies are mentioned in the following link, we know Wilson provided Contract Muskets to the Carolina's and I think also Georgia as well.
http://www.suncommunitynews.com/articles/the-sun/fort-ticonderoga-obtain-rare-weapon/

So a Contract Musket with a 42 inch barrel, could well have been used at a Frontier Fort by the time of the AWI.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

As a P.S. to the above post, if a Contract Musket was not ordered/made as a 42 inch length barrel, then the spacing of at least the front rammer pipe would be "off" from how it is on a Pedersoli Musket. This because they would have had to re-inlet it further back in the stock. They also may well have added a brass/copper noseband.

So for SgtErv's use, I would suggest just telling folks it is NOT a "King's Musket," but rather a Contract Musket that was "made for the trade."


Gus

 

[Artificer]

Of course, a contract musket sold to the Colonies would NOT have had the Royal Cypher like the Pedersoli does. So SgtErv should either ignore that when talking to visitors or say it was purchased "from the trade" as a Contract Musket during the FIW by British Ordnance and thus had the Royal Cypher engraved on it.

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

As far as interpretive purposes go, at least there at the fort, most visitors are seeing a flintlock up close for the first time. We're usually explaining how the flint strikes steel and ignites the primer, etc. so as far as that goes, the difference between a military musket and rifle is usually as far as it goes.

Folks who do know more and ask more usually get much more detailed explanations. They'd know a Pedersoli Bess - or at least that it's a Bess. As many handmade things that make it to the interpretation, the military muskets on the wall aren't. The rifle is though.

The western Virginia was known to contain quite a few deserters from Fort Pitt, most notably being the Pringle brothers in the 1760s. Desertion was a problem among the Continental garrison of Pitt later, as well. Then folks made their way there from further east as well. Lotsa ways for Charlevilles and Besses to make their way out there. Plenty of those fellas walked off with their weapons at the end of enlistments. It was a unquie time.

Love the details gents!

 

[Artificer]

Since Prickett's Fort was a privately built fort constructed in 1774 and did not have Provincial Militia stationed there (except perhaps when/if they were passing through that area) chances were not very good at all there would have been an up to date "King's Musket" there, anyway, until/unless one was captured after fighting with British or British allied troops.

Even a British Contract Musket would have been a bit of a stretch as they were usually considered property of the Colony and not individual property, but not nearly as great as a King's Musket. Surplus Commercial Contract Muskets may have been offered for sale for Militia Members, though, after the FIW and some found their way to your Fort that way.

Actually a better case could probably be made for an earlier French Musket that had been captured at Fort Louisbourg in the FIW and brought home by a militia veteran who fought in that war.

Gus

 

[Crewdawg445]

Jealous! I've been wanting a bess for some time... Silky can attest to that since I always talk about it.

With my interpretation a bess fits extremely well and would be at home.

I personally handled a pedersoli bess at my last event that was owned by a fellow friend. I must say I was very impressed at the build quality of the musket. It's also a real treat to fire the ole girl and see that big hole in the target! One thing that jumped right to me as a dislike was indeed the lock plate. If I ever purchase one (which I think I will be this afternoon) I'm going to order another plate from TOW to inaly.

Besides that, I couldn't find any other dislikes about the musket. Well made, heavy and the lock was just BIG and neat. Impressive weapon if I do say so myself, with an accurate load I'd say that big ball would work very well for deer as well.

Excited to see pictures$

 

[SgtErv]

It was a fateful trip to TOW to order some patches! I've wanted either a Charleville or a Bess since handling them at the fort. Something about those big military weapons is just awesome. It arrives today and there will definitely be pictures.

Prickett's was used all through the Revolution, too, which is where (or when, I should say) my interpretation concerns. It gives us more leeway. It's builder operated a small trading post there beginning in as early as 1759, definitely in full swing by 1772. Its site was a noted rendezvous location for the Indian trade

Gus and I had a side discussion going re: the meaning of "contract muskets." Care to fill us in Gus?

 

[Artificer]

Many of the Colonies decided through their legislatures to buy Muskets "made for the trade" for their Militia members during War Time. This even though they could have purchased old "King's Pattern Muskets" that had been kept in store by the British Ordnance Department and some of those had been refurbished by them.

With Civilian Made Contract Muskets "made for the trade," the arms were not quite as robust as "King's Pattern" Military Arms, but were cheaper and plenty good for the Militia. Buying new made Contract Muskets also ensured they did not get old/worn out/hard used guns.

I don't know how to link a PDF file, but I encourage anyone interested to google "The Wilsons: Gunmakers to Empire, 1730”“1832" for a VERY good article on the Wilsons.

The Visitor's Center at Valley Forge had an original Wilson Contract Musket on display when I visited there just a few years ago. It looked plenty robust for Militia Use. The thing that jumped out at me was the ramrod pipes for the Wood Ramrod. They are similar to the pipes linked below and found more commonly on trade guns. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/824/1/RP-JAEG-6

The lockplate was just engraved with "Wilson" and the date. I seem to recall it was in the 1750's and I want to kick myself that I didn't write down the actual date.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Oh, Grice was a MAJOR maker of locks and major contractor both to the British Military and guns made "for the trade" from the mid 1750's and at least the 1760's from Birmingham.

He, like Wilson, was also known to buy surplus Military Arms from the British Government and re-furbish and re-sell them "to the trade." This meant anyone who wanted to buy them and could include the colonies, slave traders, merchant ships, private companies like the East India Company, etc., etc.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

You would not need to completely replace the lock plate to make the Pedersoli Bess into a Commercial/Contract Gun. Primarily what you would want to do is remove the King's Cypher on the lock and maybe the British Broad Arrow mark.

Gus