Pattern for possibles bag?

[MIOutdoorsman]

Hi guys. I have a nicely tanned Axis buck hide that I'd like to turn into a shoulder/possibilities bag for hunting with flintlock. I've zero experience with sewing of any kind. Am I nuts to try this? My wife is pretty handy with her sewing machine, but this is pretty thick stuff and I suspect will require hand sewing. She's willing to assist though, and sent me looking for a pattern.

Any thoughts? Are there patterns out there? I'm looking for a simple "flap-over" design, but with the fur on the outside (Axis buck is gorgeous). I know that Axis is non-native to the US, so this is not going to be period-accurate. I just kinda like the idea of putting that pelt to this use.

 

[crockett]

There are several ways to go. I'd buy some cheap canvas and try that first and use the canvas as a pattern.
1. One long piece, fold one end over and sew the sides and the opposite end is the flap. This was probably the most common but it tends to not have much inner space.
2. Same thing but sewn inside out, this tends to billow out the inner area and have more space.
3. Gusset. You can sew two small side panels when you fold over the one end- creates more room BUT...less common if it existed at all.
a. Tapered gusset side panel, wide at bottom, narrow at top.
b. Use two main pieces for the bag, a front and a back/flap and these have a gusset around the inner perimeter.
4. "Moccasin" the front panel on a two piece (no gusset) is slightly smaller so the back is puckered to create a more spacious inner area- need suede or brain tan and I'm not sure how pc.
Straps- most did not have a buckle- sew on at a slight angle to the back.
Pockets, various compartments, et al. I think most just had a single compartment, tools and less commonly used items were rolled up in ticking and kept in the bottom of the bag.
Terminology: when the re-birth of muzzle loading took place manufacturer's called the hunting pouch (bullet bag) a "possibles" bag/pouch. This name stuck but historically a possibles bag was a square parfleche (semi-rawhide) container and not a hunting pouch.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

YES you're going to want to sew this by hand, and I suggest you get a few "glovers needles" from the local sewing store or the craft store.

Actually making something from canvas first is a good idea, ONLY lay out the items that you wish to carry on a piece of brown shipping paper, OR cut a brown, grocery bag so that it lies flat, and trace around the gear.

This will give you a crude template so that you don't waste time fiddling around with canvas test bags trying to get it big enough to fit the gear. Remember that you're going to need an inch or two wider than the gear as it's laid out on a table top, to have the same room when two of the same pieces are sewn together, OR you can sew in a gusset piece which is simple but takes more time.

I'd suggest that you use your custom hide ONLY for the flap. Otherwise you waste the hide that is under the flap, as well as the piece that is against your body, since who's going to see those portions of the hide? :wink: PLUS often hair on hide when it rubs against your body rubs the hair off. So why use up the custom hide when friction against your hip will probably turn it into basic leather ?? :shocked2: You'll probably save enough to do other projects.

Every thought of a matching belt-knife sheath with axis hide on the outside panel of the sheath.
:grin:

LD

 

[Artificer]

Welcome Aboard the Forum!!

This thread will probably be moved to the "Craftsman" section of the forum, so if/when it is moved by a moderator, you will know where to look for it.

This book gives different patterns for period Shot Pouches/Hunting Bags and information on how to hand sew them. Though most leather in this book is veg tanned cowhide leather, it will work for deerskin as well.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partdetail.aspx/49/1/BOOK-R18-CHP

Is you hide tanned with hair on or hair off?

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Entirely feasible hand sewing, and in fact much better than machine. Run, don't walk, to buy a copy of Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch by T.C. Albert. It's loaded with great step-by-step photos as well as a handful of patterns from original bags that might appeal to you.

Coupla things of note: You'll discover that most shooting bags back in the day were LOTS smaller than the suitcases you see guys packing today.

The awl you use needs to be sharper than sharp, but also smoooooooth. You'll fight the leather like crazy if it doesn't meet both criteria. Your awl should pierce the leather almost effortlessly. I highly, highly recommend Tandy's new pro version. Best awl I've used in 30 years.

Though sharper than any other I've bought, you need to get it sharper. Just less snorting around to start with one that's 98% sharp than one that's 80% sharp. Wander Tandy's site and find their rouge and pick up the green, brown and white, using them in succession. You'll also need one of their little leather sharpening strops. Add a drop of oil to it, scrub it with the rouge, then polish, polish, polish the nib.

There's also this thing called DNA Marking. Just figure on poking yourself a few times and adding a little blood to your work. It's authentic. :grin:

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thank you for moving this thread! Sorry-that's definitely where this belongs!

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

These are awesome suggestions--thank you all! I am intimidated, but will go for it!

Rob

 

[BrownBear]

I am intimidated, but will go for it!

Atsa spirit! And no reason to be intimidated. Albert will launch you so well and thoroughly, this will be your FIRST of many bags, and not your only bag.

Hint: I've found it necessary for each of my guns to have its own bag! :grin:

 

[Artificer]

Our dearly departed forum member LaBonte (Chuck Burrows) wrote out this great treatise for beginners on hand sewing. There is a HUGE amount of information in it for beginners and even those of us who have done a fairly good deal of amateur leather work. So may I suggest you read through this at least three or four times as you will find things you probably would miss reading it over just once or twice?
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_leatherstitch.html

As you have questions, please type them here. There are a lot of great folks who will gladly answer questions and give you all the help we can.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Good call, Gus.

Since Chuck mentioned it in that link, Al Stohlman's book The Art of Hand Sewing Leather is the absolute bible for sewing leather whether beginner or more experienced.

Any time I need a refresher for some arcane sewing technique, it's the first place I look. And it's usually right there in beautifully illustrated steps!

 

[crockett]

What type of thread are you going to use? That's important. Also if you are going to use a button on the flap- what type of button?
Might as well get it right. :grin:
In fact, I would tell us exactly what you plan, size of bag, size of flap, every detail. I've made a lot of things that later on I found some minor part was wrong,

 

[Claude Mathis]

I have a nicely tanned Axis buck hide that I'd like to turn into a shoulder/possibilities bag for hunting with flintlock.

Is the leather thick and stiff enough to hold it's shape as a bag, or is it soft enough for a garment? (Buckskin?)

 

[Grenadier1758]

The AL Stollman book on hand stitching leather is the one to get. Pay close attention to the instructions in Chuck's tutorial. You will end up with much more durable seams.

Make a practice bag. You will learn sewing techniques. You will have a bag that will let you know if that size works for you.

You want to use saddle stitching to sew up your bag. Those needles are blunt and you need two of them. Linen thread is the thread of choice.

 

[Flintlock]

Remember, it's not really your bag till you add some of your DNA into it. I can't sew anything without stabbing myself at least once.

 

[Artificer]

I have a nicely tanned Axis buck hide that I'd like to turn into a shoulder/possibilities bag for hunting with flintlock.

Is the leather thick and stiff enough to hold it's shape as a bag, or is it soft enough for a garment? (Buckskin?)

That is why I earlier asked if it was a "Hair On" hide or "Hair Off" hide. A Hair On hide would work, but a hide tanned like buckskin would require he make and add a stiff cloth liner to hold its shape.

Gus

 

[doggoner]

American pioneer videos has a new dvd by Ken Scott (and it is a good one) showing the step by step proceedure to make a pouch. He shows you how to cut out a pattern etc, etc and everything else you'll need to complete a good product. I highly recommend you invest in the dvd. I'm sure you'll consider it money well spent. Try www.americanpioneervideo.com or phone 1-270-782-7506. Jim and Karen are square shooters and make a good product. This video and T C Alberts book will have you making first class pouches in no time. Good luck.

doggoner

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

I must say, I am truly grateful for the tremendous support form you kind folks! So l will try to answer questions here... meanwhile I did order that book and I will definitely also look up that video cited above, and the other references! I'm not in a rush here--want to take my time and get it right!

My axis hide has the fur on, and it is soft and supple on the inside. I had it sent out to a professional who tanned it for me and it came back gorgeous, with soft leather on the inside. It took over a year for me to get it back, and I've just been waiting for the right thing to do with it...for several more years! It could be made into practically anything I think, and maybe it's too nice for a bag. But I think that's a good use for it for me.

My goal would be an over-shoulder bag that I can put all of my shooting "stuff"' in. I'm new to flintlock, and have a .54 Lymon Great Plains on order, plus a list of the things that I think I will need for shooting. I initially thought of using the fur side out for the entire bag, but am open to any ideas.

So contents would include: a few balls, patches, powder flask, smaller priming powder flask, pic and brush, ball starter, maybe couple of speed-loaders, couple of spare flints, patch puller. Am I missing anything? (Don't think I'm talented enough to build a knife sheath too, but I may attempt that if I'm successful with the bag, and I haven't lost too much blood in the process!)

I'd like some sort of closure device, but it could (should) be something simple and consistent with old time / by-hand design. Maybe a stick that goes through a loop? Open to ideas, just nothing like a zipper or button or anything "modern."

I don't have any other leather, but would be open to ordering some for the shoulder strap?? I'm not sure how robust this soft supple deer hide is?

I think I got to all of the questions. Let me know your thoughts! I will share my progress here in this thread. Y'all get shared credit for my successful attempt, but I'll take full responsibility of it is a total dud!

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I would recommend making your bag out of a quality vegetable tanned cow or calfhide and use your deer to make the flap, binding the edges.

 

[BrownBear]

I would recommend making your bag out of a quality vegetable tanned cow or calfhide and use your deer to make the flap, binding the edges.

Same here. The bag body will get lots of wear and tear, and the hair will wear off pretty quickly. It should survive well on the flap only.

I also highly recommend that you make one first using canvas from JoAnne's or someplace. You'll have lots of uses for it down the road in addition to your axis bag. Meanwhile the canvas version will help you decide on size and features for the leather version.

One thing to know about your treasure collection and what size bag you need. Over time you're likely to carry less and less, and as a result your bags will get smaller. Normal progression, and I'd just plan for it. Make one big enough for everything you want to carry now, but cut your leather in such a way that the remains will be useful to cut up for subsequent bags. I.e., don't cut the pieces for your first bag out of the middle of the hide!

 

[Artificer]

Since you are new to the forum, just wanted to let you know that Capt.Jas. is one of, if not THE best period leather craftsmen who posts on this forum. His work is incredible and his suggestions are great.

Back in the early 1970's, I made my first hunting pouch out of cowhide splits, as I had no buckskin and could not find it. There was little to no information generally available back then on making a hunting pouch and what leathers were best to use. That leather was about the same thickness and "temper" (amount of flexibility) that is found in a hair on buckskin hide. It was WAY too soft and folded in on itself when I tried to get something out of the pouch.

Personally I would save a whole buckskin hair on hide to use as a ground cloth when primitive camping, but if you have to use it for a hunting pouch, I would seriously consider making just the flap out of that hide as Capt. Jas. recommended.

Gus