old Lorenz question

[user 20224]

We have two old Lorenz muskets that were converted to cap lock. They are in rough shape but the markings on the stocks are intresting and just wondered if anybody had seen the likes. Both are marked on the side of the but with Philadelphia and 1838 and are signed by F.K. Luce???. They also both have 21 notches carved in the bottom of the stock reaching from the butt plate to the rear of the trigger guard. There are also a circles with triangles inside. One has a line with arrow marks running from the circle to anouther carved line of PRA14LGA both might have the same line but the second is too faint to make out. Would love to post pictures but cannot get enough detail to show anything. Also one butt plate is marked with 9691 3G.L.W. 3. C or G. The other is marked 14917(hand stamped) and 1836.

The markings look too uniform to be a kid playing

 

[user 20224]

Ok first correction it would appear to be a Potsdam not Lorenz. SORRY

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Are pictures possible?

 

[user 20224]

Tried several times to get a picture but they will not show the detail. If the sun ever comes out again will try some then.

 

[user 20224]

Did some crude sketchs and will see if they will up load. Ok so much for thast will try again when somebody is around who knows what to do. Sorry

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

That's okay, take your time, we'll be here.

As a side note, I completely understand, my camera skills are completely..., well :redface:

 

[tg]

When were they made in flint? I never really did any research on this type of gun other than to ID it via pics on this forum I believe. I have a caplock one .54 cal with a bayonet in poor shape from my grandfather using pebbles and horse shooe nail pieces for hunting prarrie chikens circa 1900 i had not seen a flint one before

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

TG you are right, the Lorenz pattern Austro-Hungarian rifle musket, both M1854 and M1862, were never made in flint, but in his second post cavsgt stated "Ok first correction it would appear to be a Potsdam not Lorenz." If he is correct, he probably has a M1809 Prussian musket that was converted from flint to percussion by the Prussians (or whatever of the Germanic states that used this particular gun) beginning in 1839 and continuing well into the 1840s.

And, unusually, the M1854 Lorenz Rifle Musket is occasionally found in flint. :shocked2: These were guns surplussed by the A-H Empire or others and then converted by the Belgian gun industry during the 1870s for sale in the Belgian African colonies where the native population was not allowed the use of modern arms including percussion guns - they could only own and use flint rifles and muskets. Some of these Lorenzes converted from percussion to flint remained in new condition in warehouses in Belgium until they were purchased by American buyers in the 1950s through the 1970s when huge amounts of surplus guns and parts were auctioned off in bulk and have ended up here and elsewhere.

 

[user 20224]

:redface: Sorry for the confusion on the make. Fairly sure they are Potsdams as the lock on one says F.W. SAARN which was a prussian armoury . One of the but plates is marked 1836 which could put them in the right period to be conversions.