Not Getting Caught

[Sean Gadhar]

I remember being 17.
It wasn't a "mistake".
And now, he'll probably not do it again.

Just to clarify the license was not signed. Not the "tag". We had not made a kill. Draw Big game licenses in Colorado come in the mail, you sign it before you hunt. I don't know about the 17 year old, but there is no benefit to NOT signing the license. It shows in the mail, you think "man I should sign this now......" "What? yes dear, no i'll get it for you hang on a sec, kids put that down!!" and 5 months later it's OH C*** I never did sign it.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I ran a large hunting club with 50 members, the experience was a real eye opener.

Here is what 15 years of dealing with Jon Q Public taught me;

20% of the members were arrow straight all the time,60% hunted by the rules most of the time but would tip to the dark side in a heart beat if they thought no one was looking or they wouldn't get caught, 20% of the members were down right criminal, rules didn't apply to them, they could care less. The last 20% were the ones who spotlighted our plots at night, called me with death threats when I threw them out and burned our checking station to get even.

All the above mentioned members were family men, successful in their careers and regular church attendees. A sad commentary to the quality of men in our country today.

 

[Walks with fire]

I follow the law reguardless whether it's game laws and any other type of law. I don't like cheats, liars or people who have big ego's. People need to follow the rules.

There are jails full of people who for whatever reason just don't want to follow society's rules. Croocks and thieves abound.

I won't even go centerfire season because of all the idiots out there. It's a great feeling to play by the rules; it's a more enjoyable way to do things even if it means not harvesting what others do on the shady side.

It's off topic but I once was asked to pick a raffle ticket for a custom made gun cabinet. I picked the ticket and looked at the name on it. I knew the person on the ticket. The person running the raffle announced the winner of the cabinet and it was not the person who's name I drew. At that time I didn't say anything but inside I knew I had just lost a few people who I considered friends and had respect for. I don't trust any of them today and it's sad to loose friends that way.

 

[SamTex1949]

Very interesting reading here ! While living in Montana (15 yr) I was a Hunter Ed Instructor and we often met and worked with the State's Game Wardens in classes and in the field. All I can say about them is they were all GREAT !
For a idea of how each state CO's work try and find the programs "Wardens" (About Montana Game Wardens) , "Wild Justice" (California Game wardens) and a new one is coming soon out of Vermont. It is interesting to see how each group handles their situations. In Montana I found it was always better to be truthful if you met one of the Wardens, even if you have goofed or errored, tell them ! They much rather work with the public and try and make sure all Outdoor sports folks have a good experience and are safe.

Here is a question, following this line of discussion.
"While out driving in the country , you come upon a crossroad intersection with stop signs in your lane, NO traffic either way, Do you Stop ?"

 

[necchi]

Yup,
It's called a Complete Minnesota Rolling Stop !
I drive 30 in a 30 zone, and always slow down to 15 when the school zone lights a flashing.
But,
I drive 60 in a 55 zone, and 72 (maybe 75) on the 70mph Freeway.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

"While out driving in the country , you come upon a crossroad intersection with stop signs in your lane, NO traffic either way, Do you Stop ?"

Yep every time :thumbsup:

I also don't speed & I'm a truck driver.
In My Tractor trailer I have a turtle on the dash, A reminder of who won the race. :wink:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Here is a question, following this line of discussion.
"While out driving in the country , you come upon a crossroad intersection with stop signs in your lane, NO traffic either way, Do you Stop ?"

:hmm:
Umm, kinda sorta don't think this is quite the same. True you're talking about a traffic regulation and probably not getting caught... but traffic regulations are also for your safety.

The scenario in the thread has nothing to do with human safety, yours or another's, in any way. This was more along the lines of..., you live in a single family home in a residential area, where it's illegal to hunt due to the proximity of the neighbors, but there is a nice fat deer in your backyard at dawn, so do you grab the bow and take the deer knowing that nobody will hear you? OR..., your state probits buckshot and thus also requires muzzleloaders to use a single projectile, do you use a double-ball 'cause you feel like trying it and the game wardens will never check your load..., OR..., you're out squirrel hunting and are alone on public land as there were no cars parked when you arrived. It's also bow season so deer hunting in one form is legal, and as you are creeping through the woods a deer walks by at about 7 yards..., do you take it? What if it happens to be that elusive monster buck you have been scouting how about that?

:idunno:

In all three scenarios I'd have to say, nope, nope, and nope. In fact the last one happened to me last Monday, while squirrel hunting, although the deer was a doe, not a monster buck.

LD

 

[Robert Egler]

Here is a question, following this line of discussion.
"While out driving in the country , you come upon a crossroad intersection with stop signs in your lane, NO traffic either way, Do you Stop ?"

Yes. Always. Full stop.

 

[Robert Egler]

In all three scenarios I'd have to say, nope, nope, and nope. In fact the last one happened to me last Monday, while squirrel hunting, although the deer was a doe, not a monster buck.

LD

I see deer, close by, all the time when squirrel hunting. I think the best way to hunt deer is to go into the woods and give off "squirrel hunting" vibes! :haha: One day last year I had a total of 8 deer walk within 40 yards, clear shots, while I was squirrel hunting. No squirrels, however.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

I think the best way to hunt deer is to go into the woods and give off "squirrel hunting" vibes! :haha: .

Everyone knows the best way to see BULL elk, is to have only a cow tag :wink: On a Dec-Jan Cow hunt we spotted, I think it was, 43! Bulls & spikes and one cow (we think).

I couldn't shoot her, though she was only 30 yards away. She was milling in the oak brush with 3 bulls & at least 2 spikes (one spike was only 6-8 inches and they hid behind his ears half the time) Just not a sure shot :idunno:

Now what the heck fun would that story be, if I had poached one of those bulls and could never tell it?

We sat back & glassed bulls for 3 days. I learned more about Bull Elk that hunt OMG. That was a GREAT HUNT. Never did kill a cow.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

To those who say they always follow the law, you are fortunate. Here's one for you. In 1948, a man travels through the western states and legally buys some Indian artifacts. Pottery, baskets, and a headdress. In 1988, the feds bust down his door and charge him under the federal law that prohibits the possession of eagle feathers, a felony. In fact the feds confiscated and DESTROYED several century old head dresses the man collected before the prohibition was passed.

Here's a more recent one: In 1963 a young man legally shoots a Great horned owl. He collects a bounty from the state for the kill. he keeps the talons and a couple feathers for a buckskinning project and puts them on top the cabinet in his workshop and soon forgets he has them. In 2012, he is cleaning out his workshop and finds the talons and feathers. In the late 1970's it became a major crime to possess the items. (This one actually happened in my family)

Here's another that actually happened: it is against the law to possess child pornography. A spoiled rich junior highschool girl is given an expensive smart phone. During the confusion after gym class, a jealous class mate sneaks the phone and takes a picture of her private parts with the phone and replaces it. Under the child porn law, it is now illegal for anyone to even have the phone, whether they know or not. Somebody tells the spoiled kid who takes the phone to the school office and complains. The police are called and they confiscate the phone. No charges to anyone. But the $400 phone is taken. The Police will not return it because they claim the picture cannot be completely deleted. When the spoiled kids father asks to have the photographer charged, they reply fine, but we will have to charge your daughter as well for possessing the phone.

As Shakespeare wrote sometimes "the law is an ass"

 

As Shakespeare wrote sometimes "the law is an ass"

Actually, I believe that was Mr. Bumble in Dickens's Oliver Twist

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yes Dicken's used it, but he was not the first. The phrase earlier appeared in a 1634 play by George Chapman.

However, I remember reading the phrase in a play, and I have never read Chapman or Oliver Twist, for that matter.

Now that I checked, I see that there is some debate over whether Shakespeare penned it. Many years ago, I took a course on Shakespeare and read far to much of the stuff.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Here's another that actually happened: it is against the law to possess child pornography. A spoiled rich junior highschool girl is given an expensive smart phone. During the confusion after gym class, a jealous class mate sneaks the phone and takes a picture of her private parts with the phone and replaces it. Under the child porn law, it is now illegal for anyone to even have the phone, whether they know or not.

Or back in the day you kept a disposable camera in the glove box in case of an accident. One day your wife has a fender bender and uses the camera. When you get it developed you find your 8 year old also used it at some point. Because he took half a dozen photos of his butt Thank God the photo guy was an old-timer who :slap: my son on the back of the head and chewed him out instead of calling johnny law on me!

 

[Little Wattsy]

sometimes we can be confronted with situations where the ethical question at hand is does one follow the letter of the law, or the spirit of the law...

Its not uncommon for ethics to put one at odds with a "law"...
Ethics - "Doing the right thing when the wrong thing would benefit you most and NOBODY will find out."
I like ethics.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Crooks don't follow the laws enough said. No matter if ya post your property as private and put up a fence they will hop it or cut it to hunt your property. You can lock your house they will break down a door or window. You can chain your tree stand down they will cut the tree or the chain or lock. Point here is theres no stopping people that dont think the have to follow the rules. The honest folks become the victims.. Hell I had a guy run an ad and lease my hunting property on Craigslist without me knowing anything about it until I went up a few days prior to opening of gun season and people are camping all over my front yard. So much for 5 years of QDM they shot anything that walked. But in their defense they thought they legally leased it it for the hunting season for $2500 dollars, so did another group, turns out the guy leased my land to 2 different groups making off with $4500, hell the people even produced a signed and notorized lease agreement. WTH is wrong ith people these days :idunno: Let me add the hunting property is 4 hours away from where I lived.

 

[BrownBear]

I have several game wardens in my circle of friends, and it's fascinating to listen to them if they get around to talking about their jobs. Never any specific cases, rather they talk about the life and challenges in general.

To a man, their favorite thing in the world is to listen to the yarns folks spin. Often as not they sit back out of sight and watch folks for a while before making their approach. Sometimes they do it with a video camera in hand.

When they suddenly appear, they know pretty well and in pretty fine detail what John Q Public has been up to. And the stories John Q tries to tell. :yakyak:

They also have a whole lot of fun with guys trying to justify their actions by what they heard as "legal fact" on the internet or bar stool. :rotf:

Sometimes when we think we're alone.....

 

[Rifleman1776]

whether they know or not.

That can be the scary part.
Most laws have an "intent" clause. But often gun laws and porn laws do not have the intent clause. Very dangerous for us all.
I have a friend who received a Federal conviction because the girl friend of a guy my friend knew stored some things in a shed. Among the 'things' were some illegal bomb making components.
The conviction came because the law "surmises" that my friend knew what was stored in the shed when, in fact, he had no idea.

 

[Spikebuck]

Crooks don't follow the laws enough said. No matter if ya post your property as private and put up a fence they will hop it or cut it to hunt your property.

For eight years prior to us getting it last year, the lease we are on was hunted by some guys from Florida. Long drive....so they generally only hunted it for the 9-day gun season. A little bowhunting by a couple of them. Well...the locals knew this was private leased property and that the Florida guys weren't there much. The owner is in Wisconsin, so also not close. They commonly and knowingly violated the trespass laws.

Now that more local people have the lease and they know it, we haven't had too many problems except for the guys on our east border who are really, really agitators. They pull down our No Trespassing signs, etc. One of the other "neighbors" came over the first work weekend we had there and admitted he had been violating and wanted to get his treestands...which we let him do. Trespass is probably the most common of the laws violated and very difficult to stop.

 

[Supercracker]

whether they know or not.

That can be the scary part.
Most laws have an "intent" clause. But often gun laws and porn laws do not have the intent clause. Very dangerous for us all.
I have a friend who received a Federal conviction because the girl friend of a guy my friend knew stored some things in a shed. Among the 'things' were some illegal bomb making components.
The conviction came because the law "surmises" that my friend knew what was stored in the shed when, in fact, he had no idea.

There's people who are going to die in prison because their spam folder in their e mail had illegal porn in it and they had no idea. More than 5 individual images (for video they count each frame as an individual image) and guess what, you're a child pornographer. It was junk mail buried in your spam file you didn't know about? TOUGH. You bought the computer used, TOUGH. A virus secretly deposited it in a hidden file on your HD (there are actually viruses like that) TOUGH. The prosecutors job is to make a conviction, not dispense justice, and you get to be a mark in his win column when it comes to promotion time.