Nontoxic roundballs.

[CoyoteJoe]

There is a lot of concern about the lead bullet ban now in place in some areas with others likely to follow. What are we lead ball shooters to do for ammunition?
I just received a new catalog from Ballistic Products and low and behold they listed nontoxic balls in calibers .32, .45, .50, .54 and .62. These are by "ITX", a company which has for some time been producing nontoxic bird shot. The new roundballs take the same strange form with a belt around the ball. Like their birdshot these balls are also quite expensive. If you think $12.00 for one hundred Hornady lead balls is pricey, try $12.00 a dozen! That's right, a buck a pop, working up a new load could get costly. :shake:

 

[Stumpkiller]

And my wife keeps asking why I'm stockpiling scrap lead.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

i still have a bunch left over that they sent me for reviewing. I had a hard time getting them down the throats of our CVA's with a .015" patch.

They will penetrate thats for darn sure!

 

[DanC]

Do either of you know what they are made of?

How did/do the ballistics compare to lead?

Dan

 

[Norinco]

I would guess a zinc based alloy.

What lead ban? They're trying another one?

 

[DanC]

I did a quick search, and this is all I could find on their balls; ITX .50 cal non-toxic roundball in .487" or .490" 10 g/cm³ Mimicking close-to-lead density, TomBob® Roundballs will perform with close-to-lead trajectory, while maintaining ductility that will not harm your barrel. (edited from advert) Cost was not listed, nor were any other cals.

Dan

 

[DanC]

I would guess a zinc based alloy.

What lead ban? They're trying another one?

Do they ever give up?

I found a few alloys that might be useful for casting, and many did use zinc. But I don't know enough about it to make a good judgement on them. That might make a good spinoff thread on its own if someone knowlegable wanted to do it.

Dan

 

[rabjr]

Ever notice whenever they try to stop people from using something, the alternative never costs less than the original item. :shake:

 

[Norinco]

Maybe if they found a solution to reduce criminals, we'd fire less lead.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

not sure what they are made of, but i recovered some in the sand bucket months down the road and they were rusted.

 

[Norinco]

As in red ferrous rust? Damn

 

[roundball]

There is a lot of concern about the lead bullet ban now in place in some areas with others likely to follow. What are we lead ball shooters to do for ammunition?

Unless a suitable, affordable replacement lead substitute becomes available, year round non-hunting volumes of shooting may be forced to take on a different (shorter distance) format just to continue enjoying the shooting aspect of it...and just bite the bullet for the relatively small amount of expensive N/T balls that would be used for sighting in and then the actual shots out hunting itself.

The short range 20-25 yard format is easily accomplished with lead ball accuracy for only a penny a projectile...it's a proven "short range shooting substitute" that's been discussed here in the past...and the current request is that future discussions about those projectiles take place in the non-muzzleloading section so we won't further elaborate here.

Bottom line, while casual shooting life at the range would be limited to 20-25 yards, similar to pistol shooting, we could all continue to enjoy shooting long guns right on...actually for less than we spend today...the range limitation is the only thing that would need to be adopted / accepted.

 

[GBG]

The traditional non-toxic alternative to lead 475 years ago was iron balls. http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070620_gunshot.htm

 

[Norinco]

How much would bismuth lead round shot cost?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

The Ballistic Products catalog describes the material as "Tungsten/Iron", which doesn't sound soft to me. They have a bar graph of "relative hardness of materials" which makes Bismuth appear about twice as hard as lead and ITX more than twice as hard as bismuth. Yet the text reads "Soft and dense, it performs like lead without harming your muzzleloader."
Another seeming contradiction, they claim ITX is "16% denser than lead", yet they list the .490 ball as weighing only 160 grains. These have the appearance of a "belted ball" so I guess they are .490" around the belt and reduced diameter elsewhere, thus lighter than a true sphere of .490" diameter.
They list .312" at $16.99 for 30 balls, .436" at $12.99 for 14 balls, .487 and .490" at $11.99 for 12 balls, .524" at $11.99 for 10 and .601" at $11.99 for 12. Those last two seem a bit odd, why should .524" balls cost more than .601" balls?
Taking the .490's at 160 grains each the price per pound is $43.71.
They list the ITX birdshot at $129.50 for 7 pounds or $18.50 per pound, quite a difference.
I haven't found a listing for bismuth, it seems unavailable at present.
They list the balls as "with patches", maybe a plastic sabot? :idunno:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

no the itx balls come with some precut patches. no sabots

 

[DanC]

Thanx Joe. I know their shot is tungsten-iron, but I can't see making rounds for any rifle out of this. Also, I have trouble seeing how a belted roundball could fly straight as a lead (really) round ball.

Also, how are they centered so the belt is perfectly even? Is the belt tapered from one side? Seems to me if you don't get it centered it'd exit the muzzle like a wiffle-ball.

I think maybe it's time to start stockpiling lead.

Dan

 

[stone knife]

And my wife keeps asking why I'm stockpiling scrap lead.

:thumbsup: Me too, if i even think they will ban lead I'll get even more.

 

[BrownBear]

I figure when they require non-tox balls, I'll use em rather than quit hunting. In the meantime I'll continue shooting lead for practice at least. I figure it's like my current shooting lead for trap and non-tox for ducks and geese.

But yeah, it's worth stockpiling lead even if they never require non-tox. It's getting harder to find in scrap, especially the pure stuff, as more and more applications move away from lead. I just scored over a ton of range lead and treasure it even with the mild alloy. Push comes to shove, I may end up shooting alloy rather than pure balls as the pure sources dry up. We're kind of at the wrong end of the lead pipeline out here, so availability of pure lead has never been great in the best of times.

 

[Zonie]

With Cerrobend in mind but realizing it usually has a rather high percentage of lead in it I went web searching.

I find that a company called Bolton Metal Products has bought the Cerro rights and they list two different alloys that are high in Bismuth but have no lead in them at all.

One of these is their #281 alloy, named that because it melts at 281 degrees F.
It is mainly Tin and Bismuth and has a weight density of .315 lb/in^3.
That makes it heavier than steel but only about 77% as heavy as lead.
It has a Brinell hardness of 22 which is harder than lead but much softer than any iron/tungsten powdered metal made.

Their alloy $ 281-338 also has no lead and a similar Brinell hardness of 22 but its .296 lb/in^3 density makes it about the same as some steels.

I have no idea what the price of this stuff is but on the + side, it is easily cast.
Unfortunatly it has very little shrink when it is cast so if you were to try casting it in your standard bullet molds made for casting lead the results would be slightly oversize.

Here's a link to the Bolton websites data http://www.boltonmetalproducts.com/Specifications.html