New Richmond rifle.

[Von Clemen]

Hello all. I'm new to this site, but not to black powder hunting. Just a few days ago I bought a pedersoli 1862 richmond rifle .58. I've been shooting a .50 Thompson center renegade with the lyman maximum ball mould I bought. Great gun. I've always been into the war of northern aggression, and always wanted a rifled musket. Or muzzle loading rifle as it seems to really be. I bought the Lyman 1-Cavity Minie Ball Bullet Mold #575213-OS 58 Caliber (575 Diameter) 460 Grain Old Style. The gun itself is recommended for 60 grains ff, while lyman recommends 70. I wanted to know ya'lls opinion on the matter. I'm using triple seven rs-ffg. Is that ok as well? I've been using 70grains of it in my Thompson. Also do you think the .575 will be ok? I haven't checked my barrel yet as I got ahead of myself. .... any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[varsity07840]

The Pedersoli 1861 Springfield bore runs .578-.579 and I would assume that would also apply to the Richmond. In that case, a .575 would be too small. Pedersoli lists their .577 as the proper mould but it's a very heavy minie. Check out Moose Moulds. That have a great selection.

 

[Von Clemen]

Thanks. I'll check them out. Figures. I just couldn't wait. I want the old style minie but all I'm finding is .578, .575, .580...... on the moose site.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum.

Minie' bullets shoot best if they are .002-.003 smaller than the actual bore size.

If they are much smaller than that the size of a group can open up a lot.

That said, don't give up on your mold until you've fired some shots.
These guns and the ammunition they like can always be surprising.

As for the powder load, most of the CW rifled muskets fired a 60 grain powder load.
As 777 is more powerful than real black powder, grain for grain, you would be closest to getting a similar amount of bang if you tried loading 50 grains of it plus you'll get more shots per pound. :grin:

 

[Von Clemen]

Thanks. Yea it's pyrodex rs, which is the equivalent to the ffg triple seven? So I'm guessing they're the same? I've got 2 things of the rs pyrodex which is what I use in my tc, but I've got an unopened can of triple 7. I'll try it with 50 then once I get my mould in. Thanks. All help is greatly appreciated, as this is the first musket I've bought. I would cry if I messed it up. Been wanting one since childhood, and all the info I've gathered i can always find the opposite belief on the net somewhere. Some like this, some discredit that. I love dropping that deer and seeing it laying there once the smoke clears. Ain't nothing like knowing you actually made the gun work the way ya want it. All the way down to the molding of the bullet.

 

[varsity07840]

The Pedersoli 1861 Springfield bore runs .578-.579 and I would assume that would also apply to the Richmond. In that case, a .575 would be too small. Pedersoli lists their .577 as the proper mould but it's a very heavy minie. Check out Moose Moulds. That have a great selection.

In most cases, a sizing die is necessary to get the right bore/minie size combination. Knowing your bore size is the first step. Find a machinist with a set of plug gauges and have him check your bore. Select a mould that will give you a bullet .001-.002 under. Most moulds throw a minie a few thousands
oversize so you'll need the sizer. If you need .577, get a .578
mould and a .577 die.

 

[Von Clemen]

Ok thanks. Good idea. I'll do that if the .575 is too small. Just get an oversized, then the die. Got it. Thanks makes sense.

 

[Von Clemen]

Ok. My mould came in today so i went to the workshop and melted down some of my maxiball bullets I moulded for my tc. Seems to be a pretty good fit actually. One of them you have to kinda push it into the muzzle, and if I had powder in it i think it'd go down kinda easy an smooth. The other 4 I'd have to use a starter to get it in the muzzle. What yall think? I think .575 might be the magic number. I really don't think a .577 will go in. I dunno though.

 

[Zonie]

If you have to use a starter to get it in the muzzle, it's too large (IMO).

A .002-.003 clearance will allow the bullet to be easily thumb started and slip down the bore with almost no ramrod pressure providing the bore is clean.

A little story:

A friend at work said he had a .58 cal Zouave he never used and would sell it to me for a really good price. I agreed to buy it.

When he brought it to work for me to pick up it looked like it had never been fired. He also gave me a box of .58 Hornady Maxi-Bullets. There was only one missing.

The next week end, I took my new/used Zouave to the shooting range, dropped a 60 grain powder load down the bore and thumb started a Maxi into the muzzle. It was a rather "snug" fit.

While ramming with the steel ramrod, the bullet moved about 8 inches down the clean bore and came to a stop. A hard push on the ram rod moved it another 3 inches but no more.

It ended up with me using a hammer to pound that damn bullet down to the powder load and that took many stout blows with the hammer! :shocked2:

At the time, I didn't have any other .58's so the remaining Maxi's got melted down and cast into roundballs.

I mention this because the bores in many of the Italian reproductions (and originals for that matter) vary a bit so I wouldn't suggest that you try shooting anything that doesn't start in the bore easily.

 

[Von Clemen]

Well it goes past the grooves with ease, then right past the grooves it stops. But I think a lubed bullet I could push in with my thumb, but I haven't tried it yet. The grooves go in easy though with jus a little room to spare. I wish I knew how to post a picture on here I'd show ya.

 

[varsity07840]

Well it goes past the grooves with ease, then right past the grooves it stops. But I think a lubed bullet I could push in with my thumb, but I haven't tried it yet. The grooves go in easy though with jus a little room to spare. I wish I knew how to post a picture on here I'd show ya.

I'd bet that they're fatter than .575. A lot of moulds will cast
oversize. Another reason for the sizing die. If you have to use a starter, they are indeed too big. You'll have trouble when the bore fouls after a couple of shots. Back to square of one. Establish your bore size and get a sizer .001-.002 smaller. Lube the minies, run them through the sizer and you're good to go. Use a lube that tolerates the summer heat and doesn't run. That means no Crisco.

 

[Von Clemen]

Ok. Thanks. I've got a gooru here with everything under the sun to work on, and make guns, and ammunition. I'll get him to see bore size and the bullet size my mould's making. I'll update ya'll. Thinks for the knowledge ya'll have, and I hope one day after being on this forum i can also help someone likewise. Thanks.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The .575OS is what the champions shoot. It is a proven bullet/minie. If cast from pure, soft, lead it will go down easily and the skirt will expand to fill the rifling for an accurate shot. Depending on the powder used, 60 to 70 gr. bp is the recommended charge. Just because it is a big bore rifle/musket does not mean it is an elephant gun. Higher charges will mess with accuracy and stress the gun.

 

[Von Clemen]

Thanks. I'm sure it's the right mould. I accidentally pushed it in barrel yesterday, an it went bout 2 inches in. I jus jerked the gun forward an it flew out. Thought I was gonna have to worm it.

 

[lhw123]

Congrats on the rifle. I have been wanting to step in the rifled musket realm as well. Looking forward to seeing how yours shoots!

 

[Von Clemen]

Update. Checked barrel it's. 577. My mould of .575 will do just fine. I just moulded 50 bullets. They're advertising the mould as 460 grains, they're all 500. No problem. Now as for the powder I'm gonna say I'd use 50 grains rs. Pyrodex. Or 50 grains ffg triple seven.. not sure. I'm gonna go with 50 grains rs most likely considering I use 70 grains rs in my .50 Thompson center renegade. Any suggestions?

 

[Zonie]

As I said before Triple Se7en powder is more powerful than black powder.

Pyrodex is not.

Pyrodex, measured by volume, produces about the same velocity and pressures as an equal volume of black powder.

If you are shooting Pyrodex, a 60 grain powder load would be about right.

If you are shooting Triple Se7en, reduce the load to about 50 grains.

Of course, being a muzzleloader, you can load whatever you want and start with a 50 grain powder load of either kind of powders and you never know until you try it. Your gun and Minie' might like a 50 grain powder load better than it likes the more powerful loads.

This is true with any muzzleloader. Each gun and each projectile will have one or two powder loads that shoot better than any other powder load.

 

[stuart cee dub]

You might try the .576 Hodgedon available from S and S firearms out of NY State . I use that in a .577 bore and have shot competitively with that bullet in that bore size.
2 to 3 thousands is too big . 1-2 thousands undersize is correct for best accuracy

”˜’CW bullet man’’ will mold up sample bullets for you.
Don’t buy any bullets from him that do not have a corresponding currently manufactured mold.
I have ,for example ,a Rapine ”˜’international’’ mold .Great bullet in my rifle-musket but Rapine is no longer in business .
Moose Molds do make very similar bullets and have stepped in to fill the void .
You can find the CW Bullet man on the Lodgewood Manufacturing in Wisconsin web site under bullets . Try before you buy a mold .
Wilkinson /Eddington compression bullets will either work great or keyhole .Sometimes more powder is the cure . Hollow base minies are more likely to work .

Crisco is commonly used as a lube but runs in hot weather. Stiffen your lube with some beeswax.
Many shooters fill the base of the minie with lube some do not .Try doing both and see what works .

Sample bullets are cheap compared to buying a 100.00 + mold .
So many minie shooters have more money in their molds than they do their guns . Use only the softest lead .

Best of luck

 

[frogwalking]

I would be careful of firing much over the traditional 60 grain load. The reason is that the hollow base bullet is thin, and is designed for this load to fully obturate into the bore. A heavy powder load will blow the thin walls out of the bullet and accuracy is gone. If you want to shoot heavier loads, there are other molds with thicker cavity walls. I have the same mold you re using, and it shoots well, and quite hard with 60 grains. This type of rife shoots a slow, heavy bullet with a rainbow trajectory but can be very accurate.

 

[Von Clemen]

Update!
Well I shot it for the first time today. Was shooting the lyman .575 mould. I measured em out at 500 grains. 60 grains pyrodex powder. At 50 yards shooting at a 10" skillet that was no good. Lol well at 60 yards I was grouping 3 to 4 inches and penetrating the skillet. I'm very impressed , and happy with it. I've shot it 30 times today, and let few friends shoot it also. I've already soaked an brushed it in the tub and oiled it down. Thanks everyone for the knowledge and I'll be keeping yall updated. Love It! The .575 is perfect!