New lube.

[brayhaven]

I don't favor use of alcohol for patch lube. It evaporates so rapidly I question whether any remains after a few hours/days/weeks when applied to the cloth. BTW, I cannot find reference to the characteristics of castor oil that make is useful for our purposes. Can somebody help?

I use only alcohol based lubes, because I hate putting water down my barrel when shooting. Water and black powder, don’t like each other. “Keep yer powder dry ) The alcohol is simply a Carrier and solvent for fouling from the previous shot as it’s being rammed home. Once the ball is seated, the alcohol has done its work. The lubricant (castor oil) remains on the patch.
Castor oil is an incredibly effective lubricant under extreme heat and pressure. Even if the oil leaves (evaporates), a wax is left behind that is an effective lubricant. Castor oil polymerizes at very high temps and is low ash, according to our race testing. We ran it in outboards at way over 10k rpm.
I’ve shot over 130 shots in a small caliber rifle in a day match with never a swabbing. And the last shot went down as easy as the second. I use a very tight combination of land diameter ball & .020 ticking patch. In testing water based lubes, swabbing and not, in my scoped test barrel, this combination provided the most consistent accuracy and velocity. Did testing on some of my others as well up to 50 cal. Same result.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I don't favor use of alcohol for patch lube. It evaporates so rapidly I question whether any remains after a few hours/days/weeks when applied to the cloth. BTW, I cannot find reference to the characteristics of castor oil that make is useful for our purposes. Can somebody help?

Your missing the point. He’s making a variation to Dutch’s dry lube method. The alcohol takes the place of the water in a water Ballistol mix. The castor oil (the slipperiest oil known) is taking the place of the Ballistol. The alcohol is supposed to evaporate off, leaving the oil on the patch. The problem may be that the patch is now too slippery, accuracy may suffer. Testing in your rifle will let you know.

 

[Percy]

AZpbBurner said: "Don't even think of using Castor oil undiluted, since it bonds with black powder residue to form a crispy & hard to remove residue"
If all the alcohol evaporates leaving only the caster oil why doesn't this happen? I've got some alcohol and caster oil to try but I don't want to end up with a mess.

Percy

 

[brayhaven]

How does such a dry patch keep powder fouling soft, soft enough to push the next load through the fouling without swabbing occasionally? With an occasional swabbing being not as accurate as swabbing between shots which maintains as more consistent bore condition.
It’s been my experience that without swabbing reloading becomes impossible after a few shots. Even a well greased patch doesn’t carry enough lube to wet the fouling to keep it soft.

Actually, it’s quite wet when the load is rammed down the bore. 3-4 drops on a 36 patch. And using the same very tight wet patch combo each time, makes a very consistent bore. The fowling from the previous shot goes out both the shot, keeping most everything ahead of the powder. In my scoped testing I got groups that were half the size without swabbing, and the velocity variations were 30% less variation. After an entire day of no swabbing, the last shot goes down easily. And the cleanup seems to have as much gunk as havong fired one shot. I’ve pre-lubed some patches for the timed pistol matches at friendship. And at the end of the 5 minutes that last patch was starting to dry out and took more pressure to load. But normally I lube the patch, just before placing the ball on it, from a small flip top lube bottle. I haven’t swabbed a bore, when shooting, in 7 or 8 years. Nor has the wife. We shoot a couple matches a month usually.

 

[Dr5x]

ON THE SUBJECT OF LUBES, MY CALIZONA OR ARIFORNIA GUNSMITHING WIZARD SENT ME THE FOLLOWING:
EVERYBODY REDISCOVERING NEW PATCH LUBES THAT PRESERVE WITHOUT CLEANING.

THEY DID NOT TAKE COLLEGE CHEMISTRY APPARENTLY.

THE RESIDUAL CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE CATALYTIC IN NATURE. EVEN COATED WITH

OIL OR WAX, THEY NEVER GIVE UP. JUST KEEPING THE MOISTURE FROM THEM DOES NOT STOP THEIR

ACTION.

SINCE THE CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE POLAR IN NATURE, ONLY A POLAR SOLVENT WILL REMOVE THEM.

BEST POLAR SOLVENT IS WATER, EVEN A SMALL AMOUNT, FOLLOWED BY A WATER DISPLACER, SUCH AS WD-40

OR BOELUBE LIGHT. EVEN ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL HAS SOME WATER IN IT, BUT THE EVAPORATION CARRIES THE

WATER AWAY. STILL NEED A WATER DISPLACER AFTER ALCOHOL.

FURTHER, HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR FOULING AT A CONSTANT THICKNESS WITH BEAR GREASE AND

ANCHOVY OIL? OR WHATEVER SOUNdS TOO SLICK TO HOLD A PATCH.


NOBODY MENTIONS ACCURACY WITH THEIR FAVORITE CONCOCTION.
All the above is beyond me but what he says about the insidious action of the After shot residue matches my experience.
You have got to get rid of that crud or it will happily munch away on your barrels.
Water will flush it away, but then the water becomes the problem and a water displacement product will take care of that..
If there are others besides WD 40
I don't know what they are.

Dutch Schoultz

Most people here I know, including No-So Skirmish shooters using the same lube, use it their minieballs or roundballs in a 50:50 mix.

In colder weather, I’ll switch to 25:75 or 3:1 with more oil, less wax.

In REALLY cold weather (< 20-degrees F), like when I run the Winter MZL biathlons, I switch to mink oil or coat the ball-in-paper-cartridge with a smear of mink oil by TOW. Have not seen that lube freeze yet!

EVERYBODY REDISCOVERING NEW PATCH LUBES THAT PRESERVE WITHOUT CLEANING.

THEY DID NOT TAKE COLLEGE CHEMISTRY APPARENTLY.

THE RESIDUAL CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE CATALYTIC IN NATURE. EVEN COATED WITH

OIL OR WAX, THEY NEVER GIVE UP. JUST KEEPING THE MOISTURE FROM THEM DOES NOT STOP THEIR

ACTION.

SINCE THE CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE POLAR IN NATURE, ONLY A POLAR SOLVENT WILL REMOVE THEM.

BEST POLAR SOLVENT IS WATER, EVEN A SMALL AMOUNT, FOLLOWED BY A WATER DISPLACER, SUCH AS WD-40

OR BOELUBE LIGHT. EVEN ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL HAS SOME WATER IN IT, BUT THE EVAPORATION CARRIES THE

WATER AWAY. STILL NEED A WATER DISPLACER AFTER ALCOHOL.

FURTHER, HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR FOULING AT A CONSTANT THICKNESS WITH BEAR SCROTUM GREASE AND

ANCHOVY OIL? OR WHATEVER. THE BARREL SOUND TOO SLICK TO HOLD A PATCH.


NOBODY MENTIONS ACCURACY WITH THEIR FAVORITE CONCOCTION. HMMMMMM.

.

We hunted last weekend with a Avid Blackpowder Hunter. He told us he will leave his rifle loaded all deer season. Even after shooting it, swab it, reload it. Looking at the rifles he has, I saw not issues with any of them.

His matched pair of Elephant guns are very impressive.

I failed to inquire as to his lube of choice.

 

[oldwolf]

This is a great thread and am learning a lot but all of these back and forth recipe conversations are driving me batty.
I am nearly out of T/C Bore Butter so may try one of the Castor Oil recipes or just go with Stumpy's Moose Snot to begin with.
Initially I will be using the lube for a T/C Patriot and Ruger Old Army.
Once our rifle range re-opens I'll use it with some of my rifles.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Your money back if not delighted. ;-)

And I don't guarantee it will be any better than spit on a patch for accuracy. May not be the most accurate lube in your rifle . . . but it was in mine.

Now here's a test for you. Load your rifle and a ball block and them sit for 11 months, then shoot. Not all that good an offhand group at 50 yards (zeroed for 1-1/2" high at 50 yards) . . . but the patches held up and it did protect the bore.

Same rifle, 50 yards offhand without wiping between shots but a fresh load (aiming at the bottom tip of the diamond). Back before I jabbed a fence staple in my cornea.

And I did take Chemistry 161 & 162 in college. ;-)

 

[Britsmoothy]

ON THE SUBJECT OF LUBES, MY CALIZONA OR ARIFORNIA GUNSMITHING WIZARD SENT ME THE FOLLOWING:
EVERYBODY REDISCOVERING NEW PATCH LUBES THAT PRESERVE WITHOUT CLEANING.

THEY DID NOT TAKE COLLEGE CHEMISTRY APPARENTLY.

THE RESIDUAL CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE CATALYTIC IN NATURE. EVEN COATED WITH

OIL OR WAX, THEY NEVER GIVE UP. JUST KEEPING THE MOISTURE FROM THEM DOES NOT STOP THEIR

ACTION.

SINCE THE CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE POLAR IN NATURE, ONLY A POLAR SOLVENT WILL REMOVE THEM.

BEST POLAR SOLVENT IS WATER, EVEN A SMALL AMOUNT, FOLLOWED BY A WATER DISPLACER, SUCH AS WD-40

OR BOELUBE LIGHT. EVEN ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL HAS SOME WATER IN IT, BUT THE EVAPORATION CARRIES THE

WATER AWAY. STILL NEED A WATER DISPLACER AFTER ALCOHOL.

FURTHER, HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR FOULING AT A CONSTANT THICKNESS WITH BEAR GREASE AND

ANCHOVY OIL? OR WHATEVER SOUNdS TOO SLICK TO HOLD A PATCH.


NOBODY MENTIONS ACCURACY WITH THEIR FAVORITE CONCOCTION.
All the above is beyond me but what he says about the insidious action of the After shot residue matches my experience.
You have got to get rid of that crud or it will happily munch away on your barrels.
Water will flush it away, but then the water becomes the problem and a water displacement product will take care of that..
If there are others besides WD 40
I don't know what they are.

Dutch Schoultz






EVERYBODY REDISCOVERING NEW PATCH LUBES THAT PRESERVE WITHOUT CLEANING.

THEY DID NOT TAKE COLLEGE CHEMISTRY APPARENTLY.

THE RESIDUAL CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE CATALYTIC IN NATURE. EVEN COATED WITH

OIL OR WAX, THEY NEVER GIVE UP. JUST KEEPING THE MOISTURE FROM THEM DOES NOT STOP THEIR

ACTION.

SINCE THE CHLORATES AND SULPHATES ARE POLAR IN NATURE, ONLY A POLAR SOLVENT WILL REMOVE THEM.

BEST POLAR SOLVENT IS WATER, EVEN A SMALL AMOUNT, FOLLOWED BY A WATER DISPLACER, SUCH AS WD-40

OR BOELUBE LIGHT. EVEN ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL HAS SOME WATER IN IT, BUT THE EVAPORATION CARRIES THE

WATER AWAY. STILL NEED A WATER DISPLACER AFTER ALCOHOL.

FURTHER, HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR FOULING AT A CONSTANT THICKNESS WITH BEAR SCROTUM GREASE AND

ANCHOVY OIL? OR WHATEVER. THE BARREL SOUND TOO SLICK TO HOLD A PATCH.


NOBODY MENTIONS ACCURACY WITH THEIR FAVORITE CONCOCTION. HMMMMMM.

.

Tell me, just where did they buy wd40 from in 1700?
Was not the secret ingredient in wd40 fish or anchovy oil?

You do your thing brother, I'll stick to my methods borrowed from the scores of generations before me and after 27 years of no damage in any of my 15 muzzleloaders I think they got it right.

 

[oldwolf]

Stumpkiller, are the Stumpy recipes yours?

Seems like the "Juice" could be uses as a bore wipe and the "Snot" for patch lube, or even a conical lubricant. Is the 16 oz. of water really necessary for the Juice to function?

Granted, you said both could be used as lubes, but what did you envision the use of each to be? How do you use these two mixtures?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yes they are.

Fifteenish years ago I tested a bunch of "factory" lubes and various home-brews and did steel plate rust tests (I worked at a sheet metal machining & bending company). I tested on bare steel left outdoors and steel that had been flashed with blackpowder and left outdoors. Sadly those old posts ("Lube Wars") are mostly Photobucket images from scanned photographs (remember those?) and three home PCs ago. I made sure everything I used for my lubes had been known and available in the 18th century - but no promises they were ever used for firearm purposes. The which hazel I got the most questions about - but when added it makes a big difference in a smear qualities as to how well the oil spreads out vs. beading up.

Then I tweeked the components (and methods of mixing and dispensing) I liked for accuracy. I also handed out tins of Moose Snot at various shoots (and mailed some around) to see how it worked with other shooters. Results vary.

I now tend to tear cotton patching into strips and dip it in the Moose Juice and let it dry flat on waxed paper overnight, then repeat. I roll those up and carry them in a deerskin pouch that was saturated with molten beeswax. They keep years if needed. It's also a good powder solvent for cleaning. I have carried small bottles of it for shooting - but that's too complicated (I like simple as I usually shoot in the woods with nothing but the shooting bag). The semi-dried patching is also less messy if you have the ball block loose in a bag or against your clothing.

The wax lube (Moose Snot) is good for wiping a patch across the tin and using. Just enough to fill the weave on the barrel side. Also works well for filling a ball block for hunting but can be messier. The Moose Snot tends to shoot more rounds without cleaning (a good feature in a Seneca Run or biathlon) and the Moose Juice dipped and dried can get reluctant after three or four shots in low humidity. When it does get "catchy" I wipe a spit patch.

I have also found when getting ready to shoot before heading out I wipe the bore with 91% alcohol to get the protectant oils and dust bunnies out and then run a Snot lubed patch down and up twice before loading the rifle. It puts the first cold shot in closer and makes the whole day easier to load and wipe.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Have not tried this yet, and currently lube with extra virgin olive oil, but I do lots of cooking with cast iron (all my cooking in fact, and lets not get back into the “seasoning the bore” thing) and recently picked up some Camp Chef Cast Iron Seasoning paste to try out in my pans. Without further drifting from the subject, it would seem this may make great patch lube. Anybody tried it yet?
Walk

 

[Carbon 6]

Camp Chef Cast Iron Seasoning paste to try out in my pans. Without further drifting from the subject, it would seem this may make great patch lube. Anybody tried it yet?
Walk

No, and I would be extremely hesitant to do so without knowing it's composition.. I suspect the paste would be highly polymerizing, and you're not going to heat your barrel up to 350 degrees. Are you?

 

[Black Hand]

Camp Chef Cast Iron Seasoning paste...may make great patch lube. Anybody tried it yet?

Why?
With respect to seasoning cast iron - It contains palm oil which has a smoke-point that is higher than some olive oil varieties and other fats. I'm not certain why anyone would buy such a gimmicky product when many other oils have higher smoke-points, are far cheaper and would do the just job as well...

 

[Carbon 6]

Palm oil ? That changes things. I don't think for the better though. What else is in it?

 

[Black Hand]

Palm oil ? That changes things. I don't think for the better though. What else is in it?

I suspect beeswax (to give it a creamy consistency), as it is also used to season cast iron pans....

 

[Walkingeagle]

Carbon 6; ingredients are Palm Oil, Coconut oil, Sunflower Seed Oil, vitamin E and Citric Acid.
No, I won’t be heating the bbl to 350 deg. Question was potential patch lube.
Black Hand; I do not season my pans with olive oil, or even higher smoke point oils such as corn oil, lards, etc for reasons you need not worry on, so lets move past the seasoning of pans please. Lets talk of potential patch lubes.
Walk

 

[Carbon 6]

My first guess would have been beeswax and linseed oil. never thought of palm oil, but it makes sense considering Campchef is made in Thailand or Taiwan. or one of the SE Asian countries.

 

[Carbon 6]

Thanks Walkingeagle, The one ingredient that concerns me is the citric acid.

 

[Black Hand]

My first guess would have been beeswax and linseed oil. never thought of palm oil, but it makes sense considering Campchef is made in Thailand or Taiwan. or one of the SE Asian countries.

Their site states palm oil: https://www.campchef.com/cast-iron-conditioner.html
"Made of all natural oils, this conditioner creates a natural, easy release surface and should not be viewed as a chemical non-stick coating. Seasoning your cast iron will allow it to last for generations."

• Conditioner is palm oil based formula to season your cast iron

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks Walkingeagle, The one ingredient that concerns me is the citric acid.

I suspect it is present as a preservative - keeps the oil from going rancid?