new barrel question (.54 in 15/16")

[Dances With Coyotes]

Have an old Lyman hawken in .45 with a 15/16" groove,thinking about getting a new Green mountain barrell 28" 1:70" twist in .54 or .50 Would love a .54 but not sure,just worried that a 15/16" barrel in .54 would just be too thin,,might be better off with a .50. Would appreciate any advice or past experience any of ya'll might have.

 

.54 cal GPRs have 15/16" barrels so you're good to go.

 

[BS]

15/16s is plenty strong, you will be happy with the 54.

 

[sniper68]

Not a problem with a straight bbl., still plenty of metal. :imo: you'll love it, a lot better balance. Ya don't need all that extra iorn with todays modern steel! Keep all dovetails shallow. I would opt for a longer bbl., like a 32" to 36". :m2c:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I personally would go with the .54 caliber over the .50 caliber as there is more difference ballistically. With the .54cal you increase ball weight by ~100gr over the .45cal's 128gr ball, as opposed to only ~50gr more by going with the .50cal barrel.

That old adage about "minimum barrel thickness needing to be twice the bore size", made lots of sense back when the original guns were made, as the quality of the metal used in the barrel was not guaranteed and questionable.

Nowadays, barrel makers and modern gun makers tend to use much better steel. Remember that a lot of old original guns and barrels were just made of plain old iron, and were NOT steel (or were damascus maybe) at all (at least by the accepted definition). So going by that old rule, a .54 caliber octagonal barrel should be about 1 1/8 inches (minimum) width across the flats. Very few muzzleloading barrels up to/and including .62 caliber are more than 1 inch across the flats.

Don't be concerned about safety. Unless you are wanting the extra weight hanging out there to help steady the rifle, it is un-necessary. If you want a gun that is more historically accurate in the way it looks, the "thinner" barrel is not the best choice. And for example, if you buy a Green Mt. "drop-in" replacement barrel for a Lyman GPR, T/C Hawken, T/C Renegade, or similar styled rifle, the barrels are either 15/16" or 1" across flats (depending on model).

BTW, that old Hawken you have in .45 caliber with 15/16" barrel is a very nice gun--but you should talk directly with someone knowledgeable at Green Mt. to make sure about compatibility with the "drop-in" replacement you are considering. I had to do some modifications to my Cabela's Hawken to get my Green Mt. "drop-in" .40 caliber barrel to fit and function properly. It wasn't anything I couldn't do myself, but the hammer did not line up with the nipple/breech plug/bolster and I had to get another hammer and bend it. I also had to shorten the under-rib on the new barrel by a small amount to get proper clearance at the nosecap. The tenon and wedge lined up fine.

Basically, you don't want to bend your original hammer to make the new barrel work, OR your .45 barrel might not line up anymore. You should buy a replacement hammer and bend that one to fit. Then you switch out barrels AND hammers when you want a different caliber gun.

Keep that Lyman in as close to original condition as you can. Also remember that the gun will be somewhat lighter with the .54 caliber barrel (providing that the lengths are the same). So be aware that you will be getting additional recoil from the larger caliber AND from the gun being lighter. And the recoil will be noticeably more than the .45, but tolerable.

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Dances With Coyotes]

Thanks for the info,, I misread the info on the barrel in the TOTW catalog,,it's a 32" barrel..for $150.00..not a 28" the hawken I've got I had to do some research to find ouut is a Lyman,it doesn't say anywhere on the gun "lyman",,just the proof mark "mavi" above and the business end of a double barrel shotgun. Was looking through a 1977 edition of the black powder gun digest,and there was my gun. Mine has an unusual patchbox for a hawken,more similar to a kentucky style patchbox,,the barrel was made in 1973,so I figured thats gotta be what it is. I've made many trips to the range and can't get the accuracy out of it I want, have experimented with many different loads and different projectiles (prb and conicals)oh well ,thats what happens sometimes when you buy one used. :shake: otherwise it has a beautiful well finished walnut stock. Will probaly get a new barrel when I get the money, definately before deer season.

 

[Rebel]

Sounds like the old Lyman Plains rifle.

 

[rich pierce]

Think about the weight too. Don't want to get kicked all over the block with hunting loads.

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I have a GM drop in that I use in my T/C Hawken. It's 32" with a roundball twist, and I love it. The extra length makes it more stable for offhand aiming, and I consider it safe for any load I'd want to stand behind!

Good luck

 

[Dances With Coyotes]

Re: rich pierce ,,,I'm a big guy, 350lbs+ ,recoil doesn't seem to bother me too much, Let's see how does it go...... :hmm:"I can whip my weight in wildcats, make violent love to a mountain lion, jump the Mississipi in a single leap," you get the picture. Besides I saw something the other day on a gunmakers website that I just added to my wish list,,a .62 caliber Hawken gun, oh my god , I could hunt moose with that thing, although I've been looking but there's not too many moose down here in Texas. Lots of pigs though. :hatsoff:+++++++++++++I'd rather fight than wind up as a scalp on some man's lodgepole.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I'm a big guy, 350lbs+ ,recoil doesn't seem to bother me too much, Let's see how does it go......

I just added to my wish list,,a .62 caliber Hawken gun,

I'd rather fight than wind up as a scalp on some man's lodgepole.

I'm nowhere near that size, but I don't mind recoil very much--as long as the amount of power is commensurate at the front end!

Not wanting to brag... but I've NEVER refused a chance to shoot ANY (normally shoulder fired) gun at least for ONE shot. It might NOT feel so good sometimes, but I then have that experience tucked away in my "wittle bwain" for another time. Besides, it's fun to feel that "thump" (sometimes).

A .62 is pretty neat. I've never had one yet. But once you start getting above .58 caliber, things such as round ball weight, maximum powder charges, recoil, AND unfortuneatly the price of the gun too!, seem to ncrease exponentially rather than linearly (BTW, that is a proper word).

IF you're wanting BIG (Gotta be big... it's Texas ain't it?), then you need to talk to Bruce at Blue Grouse see link below.

http://www.muzzleloader.biz/newused.htm

I think you'd be very happy with his work, and for the price, you just aren't going to get something that good for so little cost. How would a 4-bore underhammer sound to you--certain death within 100yds for anything on the planet!?!? How about 300gr of Fg and a 1600gr round ball? Even at 1200fps that's over 5000ft.lbs. at the muzzle, AND that's just the kinectic energy. The Taylor Knockout Factor is 280!

FYI, The Taylor Knockout Formula (TKO)is: The Bullet Caliber times The Bullet Weight times The Velocity and all that divided by 7000 to get the answer. TK for the .50cal Browning MG cartridge is 148, not too bad! TKO is just 88 for the .460 Weatherby Magnum though. The TKO is just 22 for the .50cal 175gr round ball muzzleloader, BUT is about 38 for a .50cal conical in the muzzleloader (it makes a big difference!). BTW, the TKO is 22 for a .44 mag pistol with a 240gr bullet at 1500fps... BUT, none came even close to that 4-bore, did they?

Some day when my finances are enough ahead, I'm going to have an 8-bore (rifled!) underhammer gun made up. I just think it would be nice to shoot conicals weighing 4 oz... but with that 4-bore (BTW, it's a smoothbore) you could shoot a handful of #4 buckshot (maybe 5oz?) and mow down trees!

Yeah, it may not be practical, but "fun" doesn't have to be!

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Dances With Coyotes]

hey, thanks for the info,,,,,one of these days.