Need new nipples

[JayDee Flohr]

My 1860's English double is needing new nipples. I have the old ones out but have no idea what size they are. A 1/4x28 tap is too fine and a 1/4x20 acts just a little course.
Any ideas or should I just order 5/16 nipples, drill and re-tap, and get it over with.

 

[Len Graves]

Your gun may have 1/4X 24 thread quite unusual but there is such a thing. The nipple may also be metric. I would take one to the hardware ( they usually have thread gauges)and see what thread and dia. good luck.

 

[kanati]

I had to replace the nipples in my old belgium double as well. They used some oddball thread, neither english or metric, probably whitworth or something equally obscure. I ran a thread gauge in and the lead is 24 tpi and the major diameter is .264". Believe it or not, that is a thread size for nipples. 264-24. I got some from Dixie, TOTW has them as well, they call them simply 6.75mm X metric thread. I couldn't find one for no. 11 caps though, so I am relegated to musket caps now, which is fine, I like them better anyway.

To find out what nipple you have, you need a leaf thread gage and at least some calipers. Or just order some different one's and try them. Or send them one of your old ones.

-Ron

 

[ohio ramrod]

Dixie is good at matching what you send them for replacements.

 

[JayDee Flohr]

I got the calipers out and measured the threads of the nipples. They come in right at .251 For comparison, a 1/4 inch bolt,X 20 measures .242
I really don't have a clue what these are. I know I want to stick with #11's. Drilling out to 5/16 is looking like a good option. I may contact Dixie and discuss sending one to them.
Since building my flint fowler, this gun is in semi retirement anyway so it's not a big hurry. It has become a "loaner" to let friends use if they want to chase birds with me.
Thanks for the info thus far.

 

[Zonie]

A 1/4 inch thread has tolerance to consider.
The size of a standard 1/4-28 external thread is .4235-.2500 and a 1/4-20 external thread is .2419-.2500. (These are UNJ threads but close enough for talking right now).

Take your guns nipple to a hardware store and ask them to measure the thread pitch. It may be 20, 24, 28 or 32. Only then will you have a good idea of what to use as a replacement.
By the way, a metric thread with a major diameter of .251 would be a 6.4 mm thread. A 6 mm thread has a major thread diameter of .236.

Drilling and retapping for a 5/16 inch nipple would be the last thing I would consider.
There is too much chance of screwing up a nice gun by trying to go to that large of a nipple thread.

 

[kanati]

I checked here, with my Mitutoyo's and a 1/4-20 machine screw measures .248" And that is what I program a thread major for in the CNC lathe. I'm guessing his calipers are inaccurate maybe. He mentions a 1/4-20 measuring .242" unless it's threaded rod or a carriage bolt, it should be larger. Machine screws will measure right at .248. Virtually all threads are that way. Then he says the nipple measures .251". Judging by the difference above and assuming the calipers are off by .006"-.007" it's actually .258" or a badly worn .264" or 6.75 mm. These were common nipple thread sizes in the European guns apparently. As there are quite a few different one's available.

Have to watch too on the thread lead, 1mm thread lead which is common would be 25.4 threads per inch. Could be easily confused with 24 threads per inch.

-Ron

 

[JayDee Flohr]

I was also thinking my calipers may have been off so I got out two different mics. The measurements were the same. The 1/4 inch bolt I measured must be a bit off.
Anyway, I gave a nipple to a machinist friend and he's checking it tomorrow.
Thanks everyone :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

My typing error.


The size of a standard 1/4-28 external thread is .4235-.2500

should have said .2435-.2500.

My point was when someone mentions the size of an external thread that size is always the maximum.
The minimum may be smaller and still be within its allowed tolerance to be within spec.

 

[Tinker2]

My 1860's English double is needing new nipples. I have the old ones out but have no idea what size they are. A 1/4x28 tap is too fine and a 1/4x20 acts just a little course.
Any ideas or should I just order 5/16 nipples, drill and re-tap, and get it over with.

If you have a gun shop/gun smith close to you, take it in and ask.

The local shop near me has a assortment of standard size and an assortment of the non standard sizes of nipples on hand.

A gunsmith, even if not a muzzle loading one will know how to tell you what size it is.

Good luck.


Tinker2