Need ID Help for recent find

[Anonym]

Just picked up another smokepole at what I thought was a steal. Seller only stated that it was a 50 cal, but didn't know the make/model. I recognized the T/C lock & trigger guard, and the obvious Green Mountain emblem on the barrel. My guess is an early Renegade, styled after the Hawkens but w/out patchbox & with case hardened hardware.

Notice is has the cresent butt plate, not the "traditional" Renegade plate. It does have the Renegade-style capless nose.

Any help IDing or confirming my thoughts would be appreciated. Also, what are your thoughts as far as value goes? Just wanting to make sure I can recouperate my money if I decide to move it.

Thanks,
Anonym

 

[paulvallandigham]

I suspect its an after market barrel, made to be a drop-in barrel for the T/C. Someone has adapted a stock to the barrel. The value is in how well it shoots. Test fire it, after you have worked up a good load at 50 yds. Then, shoot a clean target with 5 shots. Keep that target, in plastic, with the loading data, Date, time, and place of shooting the group, and your name and contact info. That is the best way to insure getting top value for any gun. Just attach the plastic bound target to the trigger guard of the rifle when you go to sell it, so that buyers can examine the target, and the loading data, to see what kind of Load will shoot that well.

Some purest will not give you top dollar for a T/C that is NOT all Factory parts, but shooters who are looking for a good T/C style rifle that shoots well will snap it up because of that target and information. :thumbsup: It should be worth $500-$600.00, and possibly more, if you it shoots well.

 

[necchi]

I think you got it right. That's a Renegade alright, my guess is whom ever put that GM barrel on it, also added the butt plate. He wouldn't have had to take much off to get the cresent to fit, LOP on my factory Ren is 13 1/2 from front trigger to center of butt if that helps.
Wait till roundball checks in,,if that's a factory T/C butt plate ,,he's seen it.
Paul's right about the value=accuracy, I wouldn't go as high though,, 400 tops, just because of the GM barrel.(if it's a slow twist)

 

[thumper50]

That may be a P.A. Hunter carbine, some were made. GM had some short, fast twist bbl for sale a while back.

 

[musketman]

Notice is has the cresent butt plate, not the "traditional" Renegade plate. It does have the Renegade-style capless nose.

It looks to me like the cresent butt plate was added after market because it's not even (at least from what I can tell), I marked the area of where it looks like a step between the butt plate and the wood.

 

[FishDFly]

The stock has been refinished, that is not a T/C finish, it appears to be Tru-Oil.

The gun is worth about half of what a used Renegade is worth, it's not original.

RDE

 

[Anonym]

Thanks for the responses and the information! :hatsoff: From the sounds of it, my purchase has been well justified. Can't wait to get it in my hands and see how she shoots. Hopefully that GM barrel is a good, slow twist roundballer and not the 1:24 offering. I'll find something that will shoot out of it either way, but would rather have a nice roundball gun. If I wanted a sabot/conical gun, I would stick with my Encore. :shocked2:

You guys are probably right about the cresent butt plate, but in all honesty, I like this much better than the regular plate on the Renegade. I'll take more pictures when she arrives (hopefully in a day or two)!

Anonym

 

[Anonym]

Picture 3 has a slight hint of a cheek pad, like the Cherokee. Anyone else notice this? :hmm: Can't wait to get it in my hands and do a full inspection.

 

[FishDFly]

Good observation on the stock.

Also in Picture 3, the rear of the trigger guard is not inletted flush into the stock as was done on the Hawkens and Renegades. I checked all of mine and the rear of trigger guard is fully inletted.

Check the stock to see if there is a "K" marked in the bottom of the barrel flat, if so the stock is a Kit gun. This would explain some of the variances from a factory stock.

The lock assembly has the early hammer style (straight hammer), versus the later hammer, (curved).

RDE

 

[Anonym]

Thanks for the tips! Hopefully it will arrive today, so I'll get some better pictures and more information up soon.

I've heard that the straight hammers aren't as good as the curved. What is the technical difference, and should I be concerned about replacing this one?

 

[dyemaker]

You know, you can build a TC Hawken entirely from upgrade and replacement parts including an upgrade lock, stock, and barrel. It's the cool thing about the rifle.
:hmm:

 

[Anonym]

Rifle arrived at my office today, so I took a quick peek to see if I'd been rooked or not. Cannot comment on the finer details, but what I can tell you is that everything looks to be in very good to excellent condition. The bore is spotless and could quite possibly be unused. There is no marring on the exterior of the barrel from what I can see. It came with an aluminum ramrod w/ threaded brass inserts on either end. Sights are quality adjustable sights. Wood is in near perfect condition. Fit on the buttplate isn't horrible either. I'm definitely looking forward to placing a chunk of lead downrange soon with it. I'm very pleased with it for the price I paid, and if it shoots as well as it looks, I will have a winner on my hands!

I'll try to get some more pictures soon and figure out the twist rate of the barrel. I might even try out a conical for the first time if it's not a 1:60 or slower twist.

This is probably a stupid question, but I've never shot conicals before. Do you shoot them with a patch? Or are they just lubed and shoved down on top of the charge?

Thanks for all the input so far.

Anonym

 

[Zonie]

Lead conicals should be about .001-.003 smaller than the bore size of the rifle.

They are lubricated by rubbing the lube into the grooves and inserted into the barrel using thumb pressure.
Then they are rammed down onto the powder charge.

When the powder fires the acceleration of the bullet causes it to grow outward into the rifling grooves to seal the gas and obtain the spin needed to stabilize it.

If you fire the bullet into a target and it makes a hole that is larger than the bullet it very likely is tumbling in flight.

The fix for this, assuming you have a medium twist rate like 1:48 is to use a shorter, lighter bullet or to increase the powder charge to increase the velocity.

 

[Anonym]

Thanks for the info, Zonie, but looks like I'll be shooting PRBs out of this one! Here's what it is:

-Thompson/Center Renegade Kit gun (I'm assuming). No "K" in the barrel channel, but some shaping has been done (very nicely) by hand, not machine. Might have been a "refinished" factory stock though. LOP is about 12.5-inches.
-Stock has been fitted with a blackened silver cresent butt plate. Trigger guard has been inletted but is showing metal a little "proud". Nice dark stain with a urethane finish. Only very minor wear to the finish has been found.
-Lock is original "Straight Hammer" coil spring. Tip of hammer has been grooved for grip. Case hardening colors clean and bright without any rust.
-Barrel is a 33-inch Green Mountain 50 caliber barrel with a 1:60 twist. Exterior and interior are flawless. Bore has like new lands/grooves and only a very slight powder residue in the breech are any indications that this barrel has ever been shot. Only markings on the barrel is the serial number (0221XX), "For Black Powder Only", and the GM logo with "50 Cal.". Sights are original TC front blade and adjustable rear.

I think she's gonna fit in just fine around here.

(Left to Right: SS/Lam TC Encore, TC Renegade, CVA Hawken, CVA Hunter Hawken)