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TC Renegade bad breech plug: fixable? Advice requested.

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Good day! I'm in need of some help and advice here. Feel free to skip to the end if you don't want the whole story.

I recently purchased a used Thompson Center Renegade Percussion .50 from one of the online auction sites. The gentleman selling it has a great feedback score, but was selling it as part of an estate so didn't know the particular history of the gun. So... mystery rifle. He was highly responsive to my questions and the bore looked good so I eventually bought it. These things tend to be tanks and parts are (mostly) available sot it was a risk I was willing to take. I paid too much for it, but I'm used to that in 2023. Pre-warning TC barrel with a SN in the 111xxx range puts it in the mid to late 70s if my forum archeology is correct. I wasn't looking for anything pretty, I was more looking for functional and something I could learn do a little wood and metal refinishing on, and this rifle seemed like a great candidate. The rifle arrived today.

and there is a problem.

I started by completely disassembling the rifle to see what I was working with. The lock, trigger group and trigger guard were absolutely welded in place and took quite a bit of force to remove. I suspect I'm the first person to have ever pulled them from the stock.

PXL_20230315_192925064.jpg


The first thing I noticed is that there was A TON of powder fouling just hanging out inside the stock. This wouldn't surprise me if it was a flinter, but this is a cap gun...

PXL_20230315_195709566.jpg


All the metal bits show some level of corrosion, and there is again, A TON of powder fouling on the backside of the lock and the trigger group. I sprayed them down with Kroil and let them sit, I'll deal with them tonight.

So where is all this fouling coming from?

I turned my attention to the barrel and went to remove the nipple and let me tell you, removing the nipple from the snail required a propane torch and an act of congress, and an excessive amount of Kroil. I'm pretty sure I was the first person to ever remove it. After some undignified language and 3 different nipple wrenches it reluctantly came loose. Good news, the threads are great. But wait...

PXL_20230315_194748092.jpg


What is that sliver of white in there?
A quick squirt of Kroil down the barrel and a couple patches on the rod confirmed my suspicion.



Pardon my language.

I spent some years as a machinist and looking at this I know exactly how this happened. The apprentice with the end mill doing the clearance hole for the nipple threads got the depth setting wrong and went too deep into the snail and just barely broke through the backside into the little channel for the lock cover. If I had to guess, this has been here since day 1. It might have gotten worse over the years, and the original owner of the rifle probably always wondered why they got a face full of smoke every time they fired it. Good news is that the barrel felt nice and smooth with the rod and patches.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I don't hold the seller responsible. I mean, I kinda sorta do, but the auction clearly stated that this thing came from an estate and they had no info on it, it was being sold 'as is' with no returns, and it should be inspected by a qualified gunsmith. This is most likely just bad QC on TCs part and a "learning experience" on my part. I'm not happy about it, but these things do happen.

So I'm trying to figure out what to do with this barrel. NOS breech plugs for TC barrels appear to have dried up some years ago so I'm not sure that's going to me an option. Even if I could get hands on one, I don't have the machinery to index it properly to match the barrel.

Replacement barrels are out there, for example thegunworks.com appears to have Oregon Barrel Co. drop in barrels for the Renegade, but they cost near as makes no difference what I paid for the rifle.

There are also some used Green Mountain drop ins around, along with stock, used TC barrels as well, but dang if these aren't all super expensive. I've got my eye on a couple on eBay at the moment.

My other option is to maybe weld it up. I have a MIG welder and a very good friend with a small mill. I believe I could close up the hole then clean up the slot with whatever size end mill is appropriate.

Oh, the lock plate is also bent

PXL_20230315_200039448.jpg


But that is a much easier fix.

Just curious if anyone has seen one of these types of failures before, and I'm happy to absorb any advice on how to dig myself out of this hole. Cheers!
 
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Straighten the lockplate, I had one that was bent and on occasion the hammer would fall forward as it would not engage the sear enough to stay cocked.

Breechplugs can be hard to find, but I would find one and replace it. Rice barrels might be your best choice for a new one as they have been out of stock at Oregon Barrels and Track of the Wolf for quite sometime.
 
UPDATE:

Well, the plot thickens. Or maybe just gets stupider. This is NOT a 1/4-28 nipple.

Bubba done got me again.

My initial inclination was to blame T/C for poor quality control, but now I'm thinking someone buggered the threads on the nipple and did some very amateurish repair work when they re-tapped it for a larger size. This looks/feels an awful lot like an M8-1.25 when compared to some random bolts on my workbench, but I won't know for sure until I find my thread pitch gauges and a set of mics.
 
I recently saw a T/C caplock in an auction with the lock plate bent and something going on with the nipple. I think it was missing entirely, and I assumed some failure had occurred. Hopefully not the same gun just quickly tossed out to a new customer.
 
I’d go along with @waarp8nt. Start calling around to Track, Dixie, any and all supply shops you can find for a new breech. The lock and trigger assembly looks pretty ruff, but soak the parts, disassemble, and soak some more. Then go over each piece with 600 grit and hones, they should clean up and be usable.
 
Just curious if anyone has seen one of these types of failures before, and I'm happy to absorb any advice on how to dig myself out of this hole. Cheers!
Green Mountain had a number of barrels with a similar failure get out a few years ago. Believe many, if not all, were sold by TOW.

Personally, would find a welder that knows what they are doing and not look back. Just be sure and flush the breech well, as the area with the defect could be a real cr#p trap (love the auto editing on this site) for fouling and powder residue if not addressed during cleaning.
 
Get the bolster welded up and go shooting.

Personally, I'd demand my money back.

His "Estate" line is B.S. As are ALL "Estate" lines.

Seems like every gun sold now came from an "Estate" with "Patina" on it.
Bolster! That's the word I was looking for!

There is a ton of space underneath between the bolster and the lock plate that could be filled, so I think repair is possible. Pretty sure the breech plug is cast steel, so welding or maybe brazing is possible.

I've contacted the seller, we'll see what happens.
Straighten the lockplate, I had one that was bent and on occasion the hammer would fall forward as it would not engage the sear enough to stay cocked.

Breechplugs can be hard to find, but I would find one and replace it. Rice barrels might be your best choice for a new one as they have been out of stock at Oregon Barrels and Track of the Wolf for quite sometime.
Yep, already got the plate straightened out and the hammer action is much better now.
I'll reach out to Rice and see if they have anything, thanks!
call track. they show out of stock but i called and got one [15/16] about a month ago... call and ask.
Good call. TotW has treated me well thus far, I'll send them an email tonight.

Anyone want to sell me a 1" Renegade breach plug? :D
Nothing you can do more than a spot of solder, a little hammering, and a little "elbow grease"...
When you've done that, go to the range and shoot, shoot, shoot... :D
That's the plan! I hope I end up shooting this thing one way or another! Gotta do something with this pile of .490 RBs
I recently saw a T/C caplock in an auction with the lock plate bent and something going on with the nipple. I think it was missing entirely, and I assumed some failure had occurred. Hopefully not the same gun just quickly tossed out to a new customer.
That would be disappointing. The seller genuinely seems pretty straight up so we'll see.
Weld it, dress it up, enjoy that rifle.
I'll do what I can ;)
look for a BP for a flintlock and replace the lock with a flint, that's what im working on, problem is finding the breech plug first
I'm not against this, I'd go flint if a flint breech plug for a Renegade made itself available.
I’d cut the breech end off and get it threaded for a new plug. Sell the other parts on sleaze bay , use the money to build your own custom rifle.
I was actually hoping to use this rifle as a base for a Pecatonica Thompson Center Full Stock project, but if the barrel can't be fixed, that nixes that project :/
I’d go along with @waarp8nt. Start calling around to Track, Dixie, any and all supply shops you can find for a new breech. The lock and trigger assembly looks pretty ruff, but soak the parts, disassemble, and soak some more. Then go over each piece with 600 grit and hones, they should clean up and be usable.
Yep, going to start calling and emailing all the usual suspects in the morning. I'd much rather figure out if the breech plug can be replaced rather than mess with welding and trying to figure out the nipple.

I completely disassembled the lock and trigger assembly to clean them up and they came out great! There as just a couple very small spots of surface rust which were easy enough to clean up. All the rest of that garbage on the metal is powder fouling. Incredible!
Green Mountain had a number of barrels with a similar failure get out a few years ago. Believe many, if not all, were sold by TOW.

Personally, would find a welder that knows what they are doing and not look back. Just be sure and flush the breech well, as the area with the defect could be a real cr#p trap (love the auto editing on this site) for fouling and powder residue if not addressed during cleaning.
Agreed. I have a friend who is an absolute artist with a TIG welder who is pretty much always willing to support me in my silly projects. I do love trading beer for welding work!

Thanks all for the recommendations, I very much appreciate them!
 
So the nipple... It's peened over a bit and I'd like to replace it but unfortunately its also an oddball. It has no shoulder and its threaded 5/16-24. The major diameter of the threads is at the absolute minimum for this thread size, and it was incredibly tight. I checked out TotW and I can't really find anything that matches the dimensions on this thing. Almost all the 5/16-24 nipples are for musket caps.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/807/1?PageSize=100
Using TotW's nomenclature, I've got...
  • Cone length: 0.355"
  • Thread journal length: 0.208"
  • Overall length: 0.565"
"Cone length = overall length minus thread journal length"

The more I dig into this issue the more I just want to find a replacement breech plug, or throw in the towel and find another barrel.
 
So the nipple... It's peened over a bit and I'd like to replace it but unfortunately its also an oddball. It has no shoulder and its threaded 5/16-24. The major diameter of the threads is at the absolute minimum for this thread size, and it was incredibly tight. I checked out TotW and I can't really find anything that matches the dimensions on this thing. Almost all the 5/16-24 nipples are for musket caps.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/807/1?PageSize=100
Using TotW's nomenclature, I've got...
  • Cone length: 0.355"
  • Thread journal length: 0.208"
  • Overall length: 0.565"
"Cone length = overall length minus thread journal length"

The more I dig into this issue the more I just want to find a replacement breech plug, or throw in the towel and find another barrel.
That’s why I suggested searching all shops for a new breech. Sure, the one you have can be welded, that’s not your real problem. The botched nipple threads will be a long term problem.
 
That’s why I suggested searching all shops for a new breech. Sure, the one you have can be welded, that’s not your real problem. The botched nipple threads will be a long term problem.
Very much agreed.
If I still worked in the machine shop this would be a non-issue and repair for both the overzealous hole depth and thread size would be easy enough. Such is life I guess.
Appears there may be options for 5/16-24 nipples, both in #11 and musket not my first choice, but available.
Thanks for the screenshot!
I struggled to find my current stash of regular ol' #11s, not sure I've seen musket caps in person for quite a while. Then again, I've had no reason to look. Thanks!
 
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