Need help identifying old rifle

Discussion in 'Pre-Flintlock' started by Raymond May, Nov 30, 2019.

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  1. Nov 30, 2019 #1

    Raymond May

    Raymond May

    Raymond May

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    So, I have what I assume is an old rifle with no markings, numbers, names, ect. I'm interested in what anyone might know about the rifle as I have not been able to find anything close to it. Any help/info is appreciated. 20191129_234821.jpg 20191129_234821.jpg 20191129_234814.jpg 20191129_234647.jpg 20191129_234722.jpg 20191129_234801.jpg 20191129_234752.jpg
     
  2. Nov 30, 2019 #2

    poker

    poker

    poker

    40 cal - b MLF Supporter

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    That appears to be turkish or persian but as far as age I do not know. Hopefully someone with more info will help you.
     
  3. Nov 30, 2019 #3

    curator

    curator

    curator

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    Raymond May: Do some google research on "Jezail" or "camel gun". Yours is a matchlock, and most likely also a smooth bore, not a rifle. Jezails are found all around the mid-east, India, Persia, and Afghanistan. They are often very ornate as they served more as a designation of rank or status more than their use as a firearm. Someone familiar with mid-eastern or Islamic art or antiques may be able to pinpoint the country of origin.
     
  4. Nov 30, 2019 #4

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

    Pukka Bundook

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    I'd say Northern India, or Afghanistan. Yes, jezail. Ornamentation is often camel bone and ebony, or ebonised wood.
    I think it might have been shortened a bit at some point.
     
  5. Dec 1, 2019 #5

    Raymond May

    Raymond May

    Raymond May

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    It has been shortened, unfortunately, very crudely.
     
  6. Dec 1, 2019 #6

    dave_person

    dave_person

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    Hi Raymond,
    I agree that it is likely a jezail. The art work suggests Muslim to me rather than Hindi. I've handled 3 jezails over the last decade and yours is the first matchlock version I've seen. Most surviving jezails seem to have British musket flintlocks, which is not surprising. I suspect surviving matchlock versions are earlier and more rare. Be careful looking for images of jezails on the internet. There are a lot shown labeled "jezail" that are nothing of the sort including Albanian and Balkan guns with Mediterranean locks. It seems to some, every gun that does not look European or American is a "jezail".

    dave
     
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  7. Dec 1, 2019 #7

    Raymond May

    Raymond May

    Raymond May

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    Thanks Dave. It would be neat to have more info on the gun but I have no idea where to even look. This is the first gun I have ever seen like this, not that I am really up on these things. I appreciate the info though.
     
  8. Dec 1, 2019 #8

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

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    Hi Raymond,
    There are several good books that are not very expensive that cover Islamic and Indian firearms:
    Elgood Robert - Firearms of the Islamic World
    Anthony North - An Introduction to Islamic Arms
    Thom Richardson - Indian Arms and Armor
    Gustav Oppert - On the Weapons, Army Organization, and Political Maxims of the Ancient Hindus, with special reference to Gunpowder and Firearms.

    The last is an old book but a fascinating read. They are all available from www.abebooks.com

    dave
     
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  9. Dec 2, 2019 #9

    rickystl

    rickystl

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    Hi Raymond

    You have an Afghan Jazail matchlock long gun. And the style of stock decoration is Afghan, and common to the Region. The barrel looks as though it was recycled from a plain India Torador musket. That would be common. The engraving on top of the barrel also looks Indian/Afghan. Appears that the top of the serpentine that holds the match cord has been broken off.
    The heyday of these Afghan Jazails were from about 1790 to about 1880's. You will find these in matchlock, flintlock, and percussion. At some point all used simultaneously. There is quite a history with these guns. They still make "tourist" copies of these guns today. But your's looks original.
    Here is a pic of one of my Afghan Jazails in flintlock with a similar decorative pattern - especially the forearm.
    Rick 001 (Medium).JPG 800px-Group_of_Afridi_fighters_in_1878.jpg afghanistan08.jpg
     
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