Need help - Frizzen

[BrianL]

I have a new built fusil with a Davis lock that has a very strong set of springs. In many cases the frizzen moves forward far enough for the hammer to reach it's fully forward position (shown) but not far enough to trip and snap forward. And I do mean SNAP, both forward and also back when closing after priming. The mainspring is also very strong and the combination is causing what may be excessive wearing of the frizzen. I would like information regarding the best way to proceed.The picture shows the actual position after firing.

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[BrianL]

Also as shown the flint, when bevel up, is aimed ( :idunno: ) far forward of the pan. Is this normal? It is better in the bevel down position and that is how I have used it. Should the cock be bent/adjusted?

 

[Vaino]

Slide the flint to the bottom of the frizzen and if the frizzen doesn't toggle over, a longer flint might do it. Also rotate the frizzen just before it toggles over and this would dictate how long a flint is req'd. There are some pretty deep gouges in the frizzen....is it too soft and stalling the cock?. The angle of the flint and the frizzen doesn't look right?....Fred

 

[BrianL]

I had removed the flint and just put it back in for the picture to show it's position with the bevel down. I had been using it with the bevel up so that it aimed more toward the pan because with a new flint it would end up way in front of the pan when in the fired position when bevel down. The frizzen only has about 80 strikes on it and you will notice that the wear is rather low on the frizzen. The frizzen appears to be hard when tested with a file. The mainspring is also VERY strong, to the point where it is difficult to cock when out of the stock. Most of the pictures that I have seen of the guns here show the flint directed to the pan when in the fired position.
Thanks, I am new to all of this.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Tough to tell exactly what is going on from just photos instead of actually holding the piece.., but I think a properly hardened frizzen coupled with a strong spring should cause the lock to "eat" flints, not gouge a frizzen like that due to strong frizzen springs.

Sometimes folks think the "feel" of the frizzen spring is heavy or too heavy, when the problem is the frizzen-cam, the piece of metal on the frizzen that contacts the spring. When the cam is not properly rounded and polished, the increased friction makes the degree of resistance higher, and thus the spring feels stronger..., this can sometimes also be caused by the cam simply being too long, requiring too much depression on the frizzen spring. The surface of the spring where the cam comes into contact should also be polished. The wear on the frizzen face looks a bit like the frizzen is rebounding, so the flint is actually contacting the frizzen, losing contact, contacting again, losing contact, and then making a third and final contact. Sometimes this too is due to the cam geometry.

Warning..., rounding and polishing of the cam should be done by a person who knows what to do and has done it in the past. If it's done wrong, you could end up having to replace the whole frizzen.

The angle of the cock might be a tad off, but I'd suggest you invert the flint to bevel side up, and perhaps put a small chunk of lead, about the diameter of a piece of standard spagetti, under the flint, at the back, next to the cock screw, to raise the back end of the flint, and thus angle the front edge of the flint downward. It's amazing what just a few degrees of change can do for a lock. This is an easier "fix" or adjustment than adjusting the angle of the cock.

LD

 

[Dan Hogue]

I have polished the toe or cam of the frizzen with my honing stone I sharpen my knives with, and also polished up the spring where the toe rides with really fine sandpaper. This has seriously helped my ignition on all my guns. You can also smear a thin layer of grease on the spring where the upper "stop" of the frizzen would contact the spring to see if it is actually opening all the way up and rebounding or bouncing shut again. (The stop will leave a little mark in the grease on the spring). Mabey a pic. with the frizzen closed will show the geometry of the toe to the spring. Kit ravenshear's pamphlet on metalwork (I think thats the one, but they are all worth having) has a great summery on frizzen geometry.

 

[BrianL]

this can sometimes also be caused by the cam simply being too long, requiring too much depression on the frizzen spring. Sometimes this too is due to the cam geometry.


I'd suggest you invert the flint to bevel side up, and perhaps put a small chunk of lead, about the diameter of a piece of standard spagetti, under the flint, at the back, next to the cock screw, to raise the back end of the flint, and thus angle the front edge of the flint downward.

Thank you for the reply as it allows me to offer more information and another question.

The additional info would be that the camming action is depressing the spring about .060 to .080" which seems excessive by what I found today in the search of several related topics. As it cams over in either direction, the frizzens snaps quite forcefully in either direction.

As to the question, The flint is already hitting low on the frizzen. Wouldn't shimming it up in the rear make it hit lower? I do understand the reasoning and the upper marks on the frizzen may have been misleading as they were put there on the few times that I tried it bevel down.
Another bit of info is that of the 80 or so strikes, there were no Klatches, a couple of pan flashes and no knapping. The dulling of the flint was mostly caused by trying the flint bevel down just prior to the photo.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Just curious if you have tried to contact Davis concerning this issue ?

 

[BrianL]

Not yet, I am hoping that the folks here will point me in the right direction so that I will at least have the right terminology if I do have to contact them. I did not buy the lock directly from Davis and thought that maybe it is not in original as sold condition. I will post another picture from farther away that shows that the frizzen spring has a bit of an upward bend. Is it normal to have this much deflection, .060-.080, when it cams over?

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[ApprenticeBuilder]

Thing is,

as was mentioned earlier, unless an individual can actually hold the lock in their hands all that they are able to do is speculate about the cause of the problem.

Your best bet is to call Davis and see what they tell you, it may be that the lock is warranted and can be fixed, if you start filing on the toe of the frizzen or grinding on springs there is no way it will be covered.

The bulk of these companys supplying parts want to maintain a good reputation for putting out quality components and backing up their product.

Just a thought.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

As suggested by ApprenticeBuilder, contact Davis.

Your flint appears to be extremely worn so it may be completely useless for evaluation of your problems.

 

[Kapow]

Get a bit of fine wet & dry or a small honing stone and round off the toe of your frizzen bevel a tiiny bit at a time. It worked for me and now my frizzen snaps open.