My T/C-1:48 won't shoot conicals....

[Don Steele]

Here's the deal...I have a 50 cal. caplock T/C, 1:48 I bought new many years ago. Currently, I'm trying to work up a heavy conical bullet load for it. I haven't been able to get ANY conicals to shoot into a measurable group out of this barrel. To check myself, I ran a few .490 PRB loads through it, 90 gns of 2f Goex. Without even trying...I get 2.5 to 3 in. groups( actual GROUPS..!!) at 50 yds off a rest. Nothing to write home about, but it tells me that the results I"m getting with the various conicals I've tried isn't totally just my old eyes, or something else about me. When I load up a conical...I'm lucky to hit an 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper...first shot on low the right edge, second shot on the upper left edge, etc,etc.
In my quest for a reasonably good shooting load, I've tried 370 gn T/C Maxiballs ( with and without a felt wad underneath,275 gn T/C Maxi-hunters, and 385 gn hollowbase Buffalo Balls.
I've run powder charges from 70 to 100 gns. NONE of the above print anything that even vaguely resembles a "Group". The one anomaly I've been able to identify in loading the conicals is that the first 6 in. or so of my barrel is VERY tight for most of them. The Buffalo Balls had to be hammered in to the length of my short starter. After that, the brass range rod pushed them home just fine. The T/C MAxi's often seemd exceptionally "loose" going down the barrel, once started.
I have a couple of dedicated Roundball barrels and have been wanting to set-up this particular rifle to shoot the big conicals, but it doesn't seem to want to cooperate.
I'm about ready to just have it rebored to .54 by someone who knows what they're doing, purpose built for .54 conicals.
Before I do that, I thought I'd post my experience here for comment.
Thanks.

 

[roundball]

Shoot a group with something like an Oxyoke 1/8" wool prelubed over powder wad down on the powder, then seat the conical...can improve the gas seal a little and protect the lead base from the fire.
In the 90's I had some T/C Hawkens and T/C's 255grn Maxi-Hunters were the proverbial tack drivers out of a .45cal. The wads also improved performance of some Hornady Great Plains conicals I tried in the .50cal Hawken.

If it's a T/C 15/16" .50cal barrel, it may not be able to be bored out to a .54...if it's the larger 1" barrel, that'll work

 

[azmntman]

Try going down on powder even further? Say start at 55 grains? Somethings gotta work. Not sure what up with the tight bore to loose bore...Others will comment

 

[BrownBear]

I've run powder charges from 70 to 100 gns.

Would that be 2f powder by chance? With those loosy goosy TC conicals, I've always had better accuracy with 3f than 2f in half a dozen TC's, both 50 and 54 cal. Lubed felt wads too, so even they haven't helped you yet, I'd keep them in the setup if you go to 3f. They made the final difference for me after switching from 2f to 3f.

Can't tell you about the Buf bullets. Never shot enough of them to say much one way or the other.

 

[mooman76]

Try what the others said. Keep in mind those are pretty heavy conicals and could be too long to stabilize with your 1-48 twist and you may need a shorter conical or a faster twist barrel.

 

[No Deer]

My hunting load in my .50 cal. TC flintlock Hawken, is a 325 gr. TC maxi ball over 90 gr. 3f black powder. Shoots a 2" pattern @ 100 yds. off a bench rest.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

I hate to say this but have you tried the cheap shot 240 gr. sabot? The sabot grabs the riflings well in these guns. I was just messing around and tried the ALL lead cheap shot sabot and they shot real well. :hmm: But I use a felt pad under it.

 

[Don Steele]

Billy goat, I hate going that way...but it could happen.
Thanks for all the ideas guys.
I might go back and take another look at the 275 "maxi-hunter". Shorter overall length might be the way to go.

 

[Jim Evans]

Have you tried the Hornady 240gr Pa.Conical? Looks like the old Ballet that's not made anymore.
You could use with or without a felt pad.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Don, one thing occurred to me and that is if these ideas don't do the trick for you is to order a few different weights of anything you can find in .50 caliber Minie type projectiles form someone like Dixie Gun works. As I recall, and without dragging out a catalog, they sell pre-cast stuff in small lots and having a few to test might give you something without having to spend the money for molds of whole boxes of stuff your gun doesn't like. Only other thing I can suggest is be sure you've done a good job of scrubbing any dried oil, lead streaking, etc. out of the rifling. No idea how old your gun is or what all might have gone down the bore but it's always best to start with a known clean bore. Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[Vaino]

Have ben shooting a .50 cal. TC Hawken since 1977 w/ both conicals and PRBs and both produce excellent groups.

You say the conicals require a lot of force for the first 6" when loading in a clean bbl and then push much easier after that? How does a tight PRB load in a clean bbl and do you feel any variance in req'd force? This would be a good check for a bulged bbl...just a thought.

I've had conicals move off the powder charge and if I hadn't checked periodically during the hunt, a bulged bbl would have been the result.

My .50 TC Hawken shoots solid base 410 gr. Buffalo Bullets ahead of 100 grs 2f w/ exceptional accuracy and has shot numerous elk and deer......Fred

 

[roundball]

And another thought to ensure you're paying close attention to...best conical accuracy comes from best conical alignment with the bore.

The slightest tilt, often not even noticed at loading time, can send that conical off to one side. Then the next time, the slightest unnoticed tilt (odds are in a different direction) can send that conical off to a different side...and the target ends up getting "sprayed".

Its the basic reason behind the invention of the "false muzzle" and also what was behind T/C's barrel re-design in the 90's that incorporated a built-in false muzzle at the front of the bore, to make conical alignment more uniform for every shot.

No way from here it can be said that's your problem, but its for sure a real issue and very well could be, given all your other efforts.

 

[nkbj]

Just thinking, double check for leading. It usually becomes a problem towards the muzzle and will make loading a bear.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Have you verified the barrel twist it could be mismarked? is the barrel leaded up? I have had guns suddenly foul with lead. some very serious cleaning restored accuracy. 80 grns of 3fff and a maxi ball works in all my 50 cal hawkins
P.s.I use a true (not coated) copper scouring pad to remove lead.

 

[Rifleman1776]

It is your right to try anything you want as long as it is safe. But, consider, this ml game is really primarily a round ball game. Ask yerself what you need with a conical.
Early in my ml days I tried conicals in my .45 cal. TC 'hawken'. They went in OK. But, I found, that when hunting the days would start out cold but warmed up, as did the barrel. This would cause a difference in 'grip' of the barrel on the bullet and it would slip 'up' the bore when carried muzzle down. Very dangerous condition and impractical. Once you jam a hunk of bare lead down the bore you have sized it to fit the bore at that time and temp only. If conditions change you have a different situation completely and that can be very dangerous.

 

[roundball]

And another thing that can make things tight at the front few inches is the way a bore is wiped between shots with a cleaning patch.
If the patch is sent down & up in a back & forth motion without ever exiting the muzzle, more and more fouling builds up in the first few inches of the bore.
IMO, a patch should be run down then brought back up and out of the muzzle to prevent that.
(also lets it be flipped over to a clean side or another patch used altogether)

 

[coloradoclyde]

Excellent point Roundball :thumbsup:

 

[Maven]

"The T/C Maxi's often seemd exceptionally 'loose' going down the barrel once started."

Don, that may be a major part of the problem, at least with the T/C Maxi-Ball. If it engraves at the muzzle, it shouldn't be a loose fit in the bbl., but require a bit of effort to seat. Btw, I've also found conicals to be sensitive to the type of lube I used: Bore Butter and it's clones were fine, but not the lube I use for my smokeless powder cast bullets. One last comment: T/C Maxi- molds are generally quite good with respect to how well they fit the[ir] bbl's. Lyman Maxi's, although well made were much too variable in both as cast diameter and weight. (I've had too light & poor fit as well as too heavy, but good fit Lyman's.)

As an afterthought, how well does that bbl. shoot patched RB's?

 

[Rat Trapper]

My favorite conical rifle is a TC Hawken in 50 cal. It does real well with 90 grains of Triple Seven 2F and the Hornady 385 grain great plains bullet. This bullet loads real hard, but is a tack driver.

In Ned Roberts book: The muzzleloading cap lock rifle, he spends a lot of time on conicals. Bullets wrapped in cloth patch and paper patches. These rifles were mostly target rifles with false muzzles and starters. Has anyone ever shot any patched conicals?

 

[coloradoclyde]

You might find this hard to believe but because it is so messy I usualy dont lube my maxi-balls and they still shoot cloverleafs.
I should note that I dont shoot 50 at a crack either.