muzzleloader ownership question

[tnlonghunter]

I have a good friend who I met and introduced to flintlocks last year. He was very excited about them and quite interested in getting his own. However, there's a hitch.

I found out that he had committed grand theft of a firearm from a former employer. I won't go into the details, but suffice to say this: he has accepted all responsibility (both legally and morally) for his actions, did not contest the issue, and admitted his guilt. He cooperated fully with the authorities, and is currently serving out his sentence. So much for the ugly part.

After his release he will be on parole for two years. My question is this: Does anyone know about the laws regarding ownership of a muzzleloader by a convicted felon in the state of Michigan? Or where exactly to find out the information? I know that he cannot own modern firearm, but I also know that a lot of states don't consider muzzleloaders to be firearms. What about buying blackpowder (GOEX, etc.)?

I would love to help him get involved in this type of activity when he gets out, because he's really gonna need something to get excited about that's constructive. He's severed all ties he ever had with the lifestyle that got him in trouble, so he doesn't have much to come back to. However, it obviously has to be legal. Any insight, info, or advice would be great.

Please refrain from statements about his character, judgment, etc (i.e. "he got what's coming to him" or some such). I know how badly he screwed up, and what it has cost him. I'm just looking for the options he might have available when he comes home. Thanks very much!

 

[ian45662]

This is just a thought, I dont know how true it is but I will weigh in. I have bought front stuffers over the internet and not once have I had to give them my social security number nor have I been asked questions about my past. I am from Ohio but I am sure the laws are pretty close. If I am not mistaken I think the only requirement you should have to buy a muzzleloader is that you are atleast 18 years of age. Again this is just from what I have observed so I could be wrong. Maybe a local gun shop would better know the rules about muzzleloaders.

 

[hobbles]

Mornin tnlonghunter
I can't help you with your question, but,, He's lucky to have a friend when he gets out,
We all makes mistakes, Some of us are just lucky and don't get caught for the dumb stuff we have done,

 

[Claude Mathis]

Although muzzleloadiners are not considered "firearms" by some government agencies, there are some states that consider anything that fires a projectile to be a firearm. Advice from us is one thing, but the only thing that matters is what the court thinks. You have to check with the State to be sure.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Yeah, I read through as much of the 247 pages of Michigan's firearm code as I could make myself do. I didn't find anything specifically about muzzleloaders, but they did define a firearm as anything that fires a projectile other than a smooth-bore BB gun with .177 BB's.

That may count him out right there, but if anyone knows where I might get specific details, I'd be much obliged.

 

[dlemaster]

Try contacting your State Attorney Generals Office, generally they are very helpful with this type of information.

Regards, Dave

 

[paulvallandigham]

A question like this is why we have lawyers. He can ask the lawyer who represented him in his case about this, now, or when he is released. His parole officer can also provide the information on Michigan law, as well as when and how he can apply for a governor's pardon. While he is on parole, I seriously doubt that he will be allowed to even handle a ML firearm, much less have one in his possession. He can hunt with bow and arrow, and traditional archery has been slowly gaining a following , with people making or buying custom made bows, and even arrows.

In Illinois, where I am licensed, all firearms other than BB guns( .177 or smaller bores) are considered firearms under the state laws, and cannot be possessed by felons, and a host of other listed persons. That includes ML guns.

I got a man's conviction 30 years before overturned because the law under which he was convicted was declared unconstitutional while he was serving his probation, and no one told him. That allowed him to get his Illinois Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID)Card and legally posess firearms for the first time in his life. I also helped another man obtain a governor's pardon to clear away a 40 year old conviction that kept being used by the Ill. State Police to deny him his FOID card at renewal times.

As big a Hunting State as Michigan is, if your friend's conviction is not for a violent offense, but rather for some non-violent offense like drug possession, he may be able to get his pardon and rights restored in a few years. He is going to have to serve his parole, however, without problems, and then prove that he has genuinely turned his life around.

I presented more than 2 dozen letters of reference for my client from employers, former commanders in the National Guard, and even local % state politicians to attest to his good character to get that pardon. Compared to the other people who appeared before the Board at the same time he did, he was a shoo-in.

That is the secret to showing the board that you are the exception and should be granted that pardon. There are plenty of crooks asking for a pardon, who obviously have lied about their current situation and other arrests, or often are still serving a sentence. Those are easy cases for the Parole Board to flex its responsibility muscle and deny the requests. When they meet someone who has obvious cleaned up his act, its so obvious to anyone listening and watching that he is going to get a recommendation for a pardon that its almost embarrassing.

Some states require you to wait a fixed period of time after ending parole before you can apply for a pardon. All that is in the statutes, and the parole officer should explain it to him.

If you don't think you can afford to talk to a lawyer, call the local public defender's office about this. I think they will help you without charge. Or the local Legal Aid office should have attorneys who can advise you.

Thanks for wanting to be a good friend. Your buddy will need the help when he finishes his sentence.

 

[mudd turtle]

I don't know about the laws in your state but here if you are a convicted fellon you can not own a fire arm period. hope he gets back on the right track seems like he has got one good friend . mudd turtle.

 

[jaxenro]

Talk to a lawyer, te parole board, parole officer, etc. However, if someone from the state tells him something have him get it in writing. It may not be their area of expertise and it's no defense in court that "so and so" said it was all right.
I think my state defines it as a firearm if it's loaded. Muzzleloaders are not firearms under federal and state law, loaded muzzleloaders are. Laws can get really screwy

 

[Poor Private]

tnlonghunter,
As you can tell by my profile I live in Mich. My son has a friend that kinda fits in that same catagory (daddy caught him with his daughter and she yelled rape). He was told that he can have any non cartridge BP, and even carry knives but that a cartridge weapon(requires a permit/background check) was a no-no.
Anyway this is what I am told by the young man.

 

[tg]

As mentioned it will be a state issue as at the federal level they do not care most states follow Federal guidelines but some do not. Some states may also offer a "relief of disability " for owning firearms, it will probably not include handguns, this was once avaiable at the federal level to cover non-ML guns I heard that it was no longer offered by the feds but check your state laws.

 

[E Poffinbarger]

tnlonghunter:

As most have indicated your local authorities should be able to help with those questions:

If that doesn't produce an acceptable result then get a lawyer and try State or Federal level.

My advice is; if you are able to get the O.K. for this particular "convicted felon" to own a particular firearm, get it in writing with the signature.

No, he should never even try to buy a firearm over the Internet, just because its possible. As you may know, for a convicted felon to even attempt to purchase a firearm could result in another felony conviction and jail term.

For what its worth, unless the felony was committed with the use of a firearm, some states can be petitioned to restore firearm ownership rights.

Play it by the book,

Osage

 

[Gus]

Good advice. In FL, former convicted felons can only shoot archery, no other firearms.

Gus
Titusville, FL

 

[frou frou]

Yeah, I read through as much of the 247 pages of Michigan's firearm code as I could make myself do. I didn't find anything specifically about muzzleloaders, but they did define a firearm as anything that fires a projectile other than a smooth-bore BB gun with .177 BB's.

Do they define what an antique firearm or a replica of an antique firearm is? They probably have a clause somewhere in there that says the laws don't cover antiques which will include any modern replica muzzleloader.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Anyone remember G. Gordon Liddy? He was one of the Watergate "Plumbers", a convicted Felon. He is married to a Mrs. Liddy. Mrs. Liddy took posession of G. Gordon's extensive firearms collection. Said collection remains in the house under lock & key. Should any trouble arise at the home of the Liddys, G. Gordon stated on a nationaly syndicated radio show that he would be able to provide Mrs. Liddy with a demonstration of how to use a firearm.

So is your friend married?

Note that I'm not saying that your friend should handle firearms without first consulting his lawyer! I'm merely demonstrating an interesting loophole in the State in which the Liddys live (VA?).

I wish your friend good luck when he comes out. He has a real friend waiting for him!

Dave

 

[RetiredMedic]

I don't know about your state laws,,

But In NY,,

Once your convicted in any crime, You lost your rights to owning any firearms..

You may NOT own a ML, You CAN NOT load or shoot it!!!!!

My advice is to contact the local Lawyer and they can explain the laws in your state...

 

[jgunn286]

As a lot of the other posts state, Find the answer from a reputable source like the state ag or lawyer. Due to possible consequences, it would be crazy to take advice based on hearsay or the "friend of a friend variety". The possible ramifications of making a mistake and winding up in jail are just too great.

 

[JCW]

Washington State considers muzzleloaders firearms. Possession by a convicted felon, drug/alcohol abuser or anybody restricted from owning a modern firearm is prohibited. You do not have to fill out a 4473 in Washington to buy a ML. You can receive a ML through the mail directly. If you are a prohibited individual and are found in possession of a ML, you will be prosecuted by the State. Out of state hunters should be aware of this law.

 

[gacitizen]

Got this from the ATF website. It seems Michigan considers muzzleloaders to be firearms. But, restoration of gun rights are common and even automatic for "Nonspecified felonies".

Read on:

Michigan law places a convicted felon under two types of state firearms restrictions. The first restriction is under Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. § 750.224f, which prohibits a convicted felon from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving or distributing firearms. This restriction separates convicted felons into two categories; those convicted of specified felonies and those who are not. If the felony conviction is categorized as a "specified felony", the felon is subject to this restriction for a period of five (5) years after he/she has met all conditions of sentence, i.e. released from prison, paid all fines, and completed all terms of probation and parole. Further, after this five (5) year period has expired the "specified felon" must also apply for and receive a restoration of his or her state firearms rights from the local concealed weapons licensing board (gun board). Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. § 750.224f(2)(b). A specified felony is defined under Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. § 750.224f(6) and includes crimes of violence against a person or property, burglaries (and breaking and entering) of occupied dwellings; drug offenses; offenses involving the possession or distribution of a firearm; offenses where there was the unlawful use of an explosive; and arson.

Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. § 750.224f creates a different restriction for felons convicted of "non-specified" felonies. A 'non-specified" felon is subject to the same restrictions as those convicted of "specified felonies" but only for a period of three (3) years after completion of all conditions of sentence. Further, there is no requirement for a felon convicted of a "non-specified" felony to obtain a restoration of his or her state firearms right from the local gun board.

The second state law firearms restriction is imposed under Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. § 28.426(b) which provides that an application for a concealed weapons license cannot be approved if the applicant was convicted of a felony or confined for a felony in this state or elsewhere during the eight (8) years immediately preceding the date of his application. It is important to note that this restriction applies to all convicted felons across the board and does not categorize them based upon the type of felony conviction.

An individual who has been convicted of a felony in Michigan is still subject to Federal firearms disabilities after completion of his or her sentence if Michigan law places any restrictions on that felon's state firearms rights. Unless the convicted felon's firearms rights have been completed restored under State law he/she is subject to the Federal prohibition on receipt or possession of a firearm. Accordingly, if a convicted felon is subject to either of the firearms restrictions under Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. §§ 750.224f or 28.426 he or she is still subject to firearms disabilities under Federal law.

If you have any further questions, please contact our Office of Division Counsel at (313) 393-6000.

Sincerely yours,

Michael W. Morrissey
Division Director
Detroit Field Division

 

[bigbore442001]

Massachusetts has some of the most restrictive firearms laws but for some odd reason, thankfully, ignores muzzleloading rifles and shotguns. I know many young people who lost their firearms ID or Class A,B,C or D license due to a drunk driving offense but still hunt with the muzzleloader.