muzzleloader import into US

[johnwm]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section...not sure where it would fit better.

As a Canadian, when I bring a firearm into the US for a hunting trip I need a permit from BATF that allows me to enter with the gun and ammo. Are blackpowder muzzleloaders subject to these same restrictions? Are they considered firearms for purposes of importation?

I'm trying to put together a last-minute hunting trip and am hoping to just drive through the border, declaring the gun of course, but not having any paperwork for importation. The gun in question would be a Lyman GPR or perhaps Trade Rifle. I also hope to bring my own blackpowder, but if this is a no-no, does anyone know if I can legally purchase some while in the States?

All tips and suggestions greatly appreciated, and Merry Christmas to all.

 

[robert reed]

https://www.atf.gov/faq-page#t316n11076
Hope this helps.

 

[garra]

Here is another link to muzzleloader info on the ATF site. From what I gather, they consider them antiques. They basically don't regulate anything made before 1899, which this would fall into that category. You could call them if you want to verify the information, but I believe you are safe bringing the rifle into the states. They seem more concerned with anything that will fire modern ammunition.

You probably will have more problems taking back into Canada. On the issue of powder, didn't see anything in there. The only restrictions buying ammo or powder is being over 18 years of age.

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/guides/national-firearms-act-definitions-antique-firearm

 

[coloradoclyde]

I would contact both border agencies because you have to cross both borders to get back home.
Here are some helpful links.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html#P002

http://www.cbp.gov/

http://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/prohibited-restricted

 

[Col. Batguano]

Yup. Call people. And if possible, get things in writing. I'm sure the RCMP has the same sort of a sense of humor as the U.S. LEO community

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Actually, yes it's been a decade since I went to Canada with BP to go after moose, but I found the Canadian border guards much more amenable than the US Border Guards, and I'm an LEO in the US...

I have found both on my trip, and in my daily job, that the best thing is to refer to your equipment as to what it legally is. Saves a lot on confusion among LEO's who are not well informed....so your reproduction antique flintlock is legally an antique here in the States, because it's a copy of one. It's not a rifle, or a shotgun, nor a fowler or fusil. It's an antique flintlock.

LD

 

[johnwm]

Thanks to all for your input. I am firing off emails and phone calls every which way to try to clarify the legalities of this, but with the holidays things are very slow.

LDave, thanks for that detail. Here in Canada, flintlocks are also legally considered "antiques", whether they are replicas or originals...but my guns are percussion locks, and thus firearms by Canadian legal definition. Does the U.S. consider a percussion muzzleloader an "antique"?

 

[azmntman]

Ya

 

[Alden]

Went to Canada more than five and less tha 10 years ago I guess with two muskets legally with no problems and the amounts of blackpowder Canada allowed were quite liberal. Border guard wished me a good reenactment on The Plains of Abraham. Apparently she'd seen hundreds on their way, some with cannon in tow...

The only problem I had was being BERATED by some beyotch US Border Agent COMING BACK who went on about me bringing guns into the country and "when were you gonna tell me." "I just did." However, I had to point out a coupla times that was a courtesy as blackpowder reproductions are not considered firearms under US law. Then of course there was the point that I was a US Citizen and they were already mine. A real POS she was. I was really hoping she'd escalate the issue to a supervisor... But when she saw the look on my face change to "We've had just about enough of your BS little girl" she waved me and my witness through.

OP has to remember that here we can walk into a (large and varied) hobby shop anywhere in the country pretty much and buy any blackpowder gun they happen to have on hand if you have the money.

 

[azmntman]

Or we can click and have it delivered to our door in bout 4-5 days (unless its TRS) :stir:

 

[Alden]

Or "The Grinch That Stole Christmas" from Cheape; TVM.
:grin:

 

[rusty]

Yes you can import a flintlock,but a percuasion might be a little harder to do.you have the seller put on the box Antique reproduction flintlock,you will have no problem..and it is legal..

 

[johnwm]

Thanks to all, especially to Alden. I was hoping to hear that a black powder muzzleloader was not regulated the same as a regular firearm, so I think that I should be able to enter the U.S. without problems. There is no problem returning to Canada, as long as I can show that I didn't buy the gun while in the States...easy to do.

By the way, as bad as our laws up here are in so many ways, there are actually some areas where gun owners have some advantages over you folks down south. Someone mentioned that you can have a muzzleloader delivered to your door by mail. As a Canadian, I can do the same thing...not only with a muzzleloader, but with any firearm, as long as I have a PAL (Possession and Acquisition Licence). That includes some interesting little toys like 8, 12, or 14-inch-barreled shotguns and a number of SBR's and others.

Anyways, thanks for the good news, in case I can't get official answers before the hunt comes up. Now it looks like my biggest problem will be getting the meat home, and those hurdles will be placed in my path by Canadian Customs, rather than American laws.

 

[Artificer]

John,

An additional thing to consider are State Laws here in the U.S. Some States are beginning to regulate Percussion guns like modern guns.

However, if you are coming down into Minnesota or Michigan or most of the Northern Midwest States, you should not have that problem.

I was a High School Band Member who participated in the Manisphere Festival in Manitoba in 1971. WOW, what a GREAT time we had there!! They almost had to DRAG me out of the many story Hudson Bay store there!!

Gus

 

[Mickc01]

Thanks to all, especially to Alden. I was hoping to hear that a black powder muzzleloader was not regulated the same as a regular firearm, so I think that I should be able to enter the U.S. without problems. There is no problem returning to Canada, as long as I can show that I didn't buy the gun while in the States...easy to do.

By the way, as bad as our laws up here are in so many ways, there are actually some areas where gun owners have some advantages over you folks down south. Someone mentioned that you can have a muzzleloader delivered to your door by mail. As a Canadian, I can do the same thing...not only with a muzzleloader, but with any firearm, as long as I have a PAL (Possession and Acquisition Licence). That includes some interesting little toys like 8, 12, or 14-inch-barreled shotguns and a number of SBR's and others.

Anyways, thanks for the good news, in case I can't get official answers before the hunt comes up. Now it looks like my biggest problem will be getting the meat home, and those hurdles will be placed in my path by Canadian Customs, rather than American laws.

Hey John, do let us know what you find out. I'm guessing you'll have more problems trying to carry the BP back and forth than the actual guns. But I do think this is a very interesting thread and question....Mick C :hatsoff:

 

[F.G. Ford]

If you contact US border security, tell them of your intentions, time dates and intended location.
You will have no problems.
BUT get it in writing and the officer's name and contact information.
If your firearm is locked in a secure container with powder and balls separate you will breeze through.
Make sure that you have your passport or provincial "Easy Pass" or you "WILL NOT" be entering into the great USA.
Warning: If you do not have these items, cancel your trip. It is not going to happen!
They have really tightened up border crossing, especially since Homeland Security has taken office. Each and every time some crack pot does something stupid, we all suffer.
I wish it were the 60's & 70's once again.
Fred

 

[coloradoclyde]

An then there's the question of crossing the border with your game if you kill something?

 

[F.G. Ford]

From New York or Pennsylvania to Ontario, Canada there is no problem, providing it is licensed and tagged with the game warden's permit of transport.
If you shoot a beef cow, that is a different story. :nono:
Not good!
Fred

 

[robert1]

Best thing to do is get the permit from the BATF,Form 6NIA. You can get it online, in case you didn't know,as well as a state hunting license, and then on your way back, you have proof the rifle wasn't purchased in the USA.
Basically, you can bring back any powder and bullets/balls you brought with you, but no more.
Remember, it's not the Canadian or US border people that will be the biggest potential problem, it's the spot checks by the Department of State before you get to the US border on your way back, if not all is in order. And yes, you can buy anything you need in the way of reloading supplies in the US, no problem, just can't take it home.

 

[Alden]

U can probably take it home, just need to declare and pay any Customs Duty, right (presumimg it's legal)?

I hit a big pig once in Canada and kept it figuring the damage it did would at least be offset somewhat. Well, they nabbed me at the border and said they knew I had it. "How" I asked. "The pig squeeled" they said!

That's a joke Wes/Tex