More ... useless trash ... flint strikers

[ameling]

Well, since my comments and methods of making flint
strikers were deemed ... useless trash ... but at
least entertaining, I decided to do some work
Tuesday. I made 14 pieces of that ... useless
trash. Here's a pic of some of them. When I make
flint strikers, I usually make them in pairs.
While I am hammering one, the other is heating up.
Plus making two of the same at one time helps me
keep things straight in my mind - where to hammer
them, how far to draw the ends out, where to make
bends. So the pic only shows one of each.

From bottom left:

Viking era - with the ends curled back and forth like two snakes
Viking era - a simpler C style - the Vikings liked that center peak
Roman P - a Roman 1st to 3rd century style
And the top one is an original Roman P style

Right side from bottom:

English Double Curl - from around 1700 up through
the rest of the 1700's. Plus one original was
found in northern Italy
English Monkeytail - mid to late 1700's
Voyageur style - the HBC was selling these in the
early 1800's up to around 1860
And the top one is an original Roman "dogsled"
style. It kind of resembles the profile of a dogsled.

I included the two original Roman strikers because
there are some people who are trying to pass ones
like them off as original "Colonial American Rev
War 1770-1790 found at XXXX battlefield in XX
State". Usually stating something like King's
Mountain, or Cowpens, and NC or SC or Virginia.
And the latest twists - as being from a private
long-time collection, "non-dug", and several more
buzz words I can't remember at the moment. PURE
SCAM! The fetch a higher price as Colonial
American than they do as Roman artifacts. I
haven't found examples of that dogsled style past
the early Middleages. Ditto the P style, although
there is a 1650's Dutch style that kind of
resembles that Roman P style but flattened/squished
more. I've now had several people proudly show me
their ORIGINAL REV WAR flint striker, only to have
me point out the problems. Yes, they believed the
evil-bay vendor they bought it from. And when I
question those evil-bay vendors, I get that
standard antique/junque/fleamarket response -
"that's what the guy I got it from told me".

So if you want an original really old striker, just
search evil-bay for "roman fire" and you will see a
bunch listed. And at better selling prices than
those ... new antiques ... prices of the scammers.

It felt good to get back hammering at the forge
after being pounded by those kidney stones. But I
still need to get some ... energy and stamina back.
I tucker out too easily.

And I spent this morning "rescuing" my forge and
several workbenches from the MUDD they were slowly
sinking into. I have a dirt floor in my shop. So
each spring the floor gets wet and soft. The one
corner of the forge had sunk around 3 inches! The
one workbench was down about 5 inches at one end!
And the one old machine-shop welding table with the
300 pound cast iron top had crumbled the wood
blocks it was on. But it also has a swage block
and another anvil setting on top of it - about 400
more pounds! So things have been ... stabilized
... for the time being.

Just another day out in the Hinterlands ...

Mikey - that grumpy ol' Blacksmith

p.s. Note to Griz: several of similar ones got sent out to
you in the mail today. They should arrive in a
couple days or so. Your letter got delivered by
the Post Rider Monday.

 

[blacksmithman64]

Mike, you're certainly a treasure trove of information on strikers! Why do you suppose there were so many different shapes for such a utilitarian tool?

 

[ameling]

Why all the variety of shapes/styles?

Best answer I could give would be --- personal
preferences. Different times/cultures developed a
feel for different shapes and styles.

But one is sort of the universal flint striker
shape. The C shaped striker. It shows up from
very early Roman times B.C. on up all the way to
present times. It seems that every time period and
culture had their own C striker. There were some
specific variations that were unique to different
cultures and places, but that basic C striker still
was THE MOST COMMON across the ages.

The Romans liked symetry on the C strikers. The
ends were done both the same - either both with an
extra little curl on the ends, or both left pretty
straight/pointed. The Vikings liked that "peak" in
the center of their C shaped strikers. And the C
striker with an extra little curl on only one end with
the other left straight/pointed kind of became
popular in the early 1800's - especially with the
Western Rocky Mountain Fur Trade.

But there are literally dozens of different
styles/shapes - all for such a common utility tool.
I own copies of the 4 known books about flint
strikers, and there is also lots of info spread
around in various books - usually a paragraph here,
a picture there. Flint strikers have been around
basically as long as man has been working iron.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. And I'm always looking for new
books/pictures/info on flint strikers. Just a ...
mild ... obsession.

p.p.s. And a little clarification on my initial
post: No, I do not have any original Roman flint
strikers for sale over on evil-bay. Just trying to
warn people about the scammers passing off the
original Roman ones as original Colonial American
strikers for bigger bucks.

 

[PitchyPine]

Lookin good. :thumbsup:

 

[hotsparks]

I quess I missed the "useless junk" conversation, had to have been from a "buy it from somebody-my time's too valuable" type of guy..obviously not someone that ever drug a hot piece of metal out of a forge and had the satisfaction of pounding it into something remotely like he had imagined. I've forged dozens of blades from my 'Lively' forge and enjoyed every minute of it...I am perfecting forge welding now and have aquired a swage block...have plans to build a bigger forge and spend some time at "Toad Hall" if I ever get the privelage...look out barrel!!! Bye-bye GM..LOL

 

[musketman]

Why do you suppose there were so many different shapes for such a utilitarian tool?

I suppose for the same reason there are so many different muzzleloders styles for the same period, each builder has his "idea" of what it should look like.

After all, when it comes right down to it, they are all custom works of art.

 

[tg]

Well I have been told that as long as it is earlier than your time period it is PC :grin:

 

[shooyer_250]

i surely do admire those strikers Mike, could I PT you concerning them?...Lee

 

[ameling]

i surely do admire those strikers Mike, could I PT you concerning them?...Lee

Yes, please do. Always willing to talk strikers with most anybody.

Thanks
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[ameling]

The latest "story" being used by those evil-bay scammers involves that original Roman striker I have in the upper right corner of my picture. They are calling ones like it a ... combination flint striker and musket tool!!!!! They point out that "screwdriver" back end of it, and say the front prow is a vent pick!

Well, you do have to give them some credit for ... creativity.

But in all the books and museums, I haven't seen that style/shape of striker past the Middle Ages in Europe - say around the 5th or 6th century. That's in the archy digs and museum collections. Although, if you travel over behind the old Iron Curtain, and through the Balkans, you can find some of that shape/style still being used in these "modern" times. New made or just using old artifacts? Hard to tell. But the old technology still is being used in some of those areas. Yeah, does slightly conflict with those books and museums. I'm more inclined to believe they are using old dug up artifacts. Hey, they still work.

But it is now a ... combination flint striker and MUSKET TOOL - or so some people would want you to believe. Yeah, some antique and fleamarket dealers give the rest a bad name.


So, how old is too old to carry at reenactments? Just how far back would be too old for your current time period? 20 years? Probably OK. 50 years? Kind of pushing it. 5 or 6 centuries? A pretty far stretch.

Well, it's time to go sharpen the point on my "new" musket tool flint striker!

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[CZMark]

The two at the bottom of the picture look like they would be hard to hold during use.

 

[ameling]

The two at the bottom of the picture look like they would be hard to hold during use.

There are MANY flint striker styles/shapes where you have to hold them with a "pinch" grip instead of using that "brass knuckles" type hold that you can use with a classic C striker. There are lots where you cannot put any finger through a loop to hold it. It's just another method of holding a striker.

Personally, I prefer to use the "pinch" grip when using a flint striker - even with the C types. I get better control, and expose less flesh/blood to the sharp edges on my flint. When I first learned how to use a flint striker, I started with that classic C striker. And I used the "brass knuckle" type of hold. And I got a number of scars on my knuckles to prove it! It takes a bit of use/experience to develope good technique in using a striker. But those cut knuckles pushed me to learn that "pinch" type grip. Now it's the method I prefer.

That "pinch" grip is also the method the early boy scouts taught. If you look at the flint striker kits they used to sell, the striker was just a straight steel bar. So you had to ... pinch ... it between your thumb and fingers - just to hold it.

And some scout troop leaders used to teach their scouts how to make their own striker from a section of an old file. A do-it-yourself project for the scouts. Clamp an old file in your vice with about 3 inches sticking up above the jaws. Drape a shop rag over it. Now smack that file flat on the side near the jaws with a heavy hammer. It should ... snap off. And that rag helps control any little bits of "shrapnel", but it also helps you find it back after it flies across the shop and under a work bench. Now CAREFULLY grind the teeth off of the two narrow edges with a bench grinder. But don't let it get too hot. If you can't hold it in your bare fingers, the cool it in water right away. Also if you start to see any Blue color starting in the steel. Go slow, and grind those teeth off down to full bare metal. Also tilt it a bit and "bevel" the teeth back a bit along the flat sides from that narrow edge. And smooth out any sharp edges where it broke off. Now, that section of file should work VERY WELL as a flint striker - as-is. Yes, you will have to use the "pinch" grip.

Some newer files won't work for this. They are made from soft iron and then case-hardened - so only the teeth have the carbon you need for it to work as a striker. Some new ones are still good - like Nicholson. But the cheapo's from China/Pakistan generally aren't.

So it all comes down to a matter of personal preference in style/shape, and method of holding and striking sparks. Another reason for all the variations in styles/shapes over the centuries.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[CZMark]

Thanks for the information.

I never thought of using a pinch grip--it does seem like it might be easier on the knuckles. :hatsoff:

 

[fatboy]

Hey Mike nice strikers as always ! :hatsoff: I made 2 fire steels out of some hay rake tooth I quenched in water thinking this would work ok ,after testing they hadnt worked as well as my previous ones want to clean the face up with a file to remove any scale that could have been on there and both broke !! should have I used a oil quench ? by the way slack tub temp was on the cold side its half a wiskey barrel .

 

[mckutzy]

i made one of those steels from a file just like u described years ago, i use it pretty much every day for my pipe as a lighter with cotton rope. works great. but i would like to eventually get a fancier one like the ones u made. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: nice work.

 

[ameling]

Hey Mike nice strikers as always ! :hatsoff: I made 2 fire steels out of some hay rake tooth I quenched in water thinking this would work ok ,after testing they hadnt worked as well as my previous ones want to clean the face up with a file to remove any scale that could have been on there and both broke !! should have I used a oil quench ? by the way slack tub temp was on the cold side its half a wiskey barrel .

There are lots of ways to heat-treat a flint striker. So it comes down to the way that works best for you.

But the best advice I ever got came from a knife maker. He said to Thermal Cycle my strikers after I was done forging but before the final heat-treat. It was amazing how much it helped cut down on the brittleness in the finished strikers. I had some that would break if they fell on GRASS! Or would set one down on the bench after testing it, turn around to work on other things, then hear a "tink" behind me. Look back and see that new striker in 3 or 4 pieces. They broke from internal stress. So now I Thermal Cycle all my strikers before the final quench. It's been probably the best piece of advice I ever got on making strikers.

To Thermal Cycle a striker, you finish forging it to shape, and then heat it up to critical temp (where a magnet will no longer stick to it). Then pull it out of the heat and let it air-cool until you don't see any red color in it. Then heat it back up to critical temp and pull it out to air-cool again. And do this one more time. Then heat up to critical temp and quench. That Thermal Cycling relieves internal stress in the steel from the forging/bending process. And it refines/shrinks the internal grain structure of the steel. The smaller the grain structure, the less brittle it will be after quenching. When you heat the steel up to normal forgeing temps, the internal grain structure expands - a lot.

Like I said, that Thermal Cycling tip was the best tip I ever received. It cure lots of brittleness problems.

My quench tub is a half whiskey barrel. During spring/fall it often has ice floating in it. During winter I empty it and use a small kettle for quenching. But sometimes I have to add ice to cool the water down some - especially if I have to quench a bunch of things. There comes a point where the water gets too warm to quench well.

I also usually quench the whole striker at once. And then, if there are thin parts I drew out a bunch, I will selectively heat those areas back up a bit - to make them less hard/brittle. With those simple C strikers made from modern hayrake teeth, I generally don't bother to heat back up the ends. SO they have that whitish/gray color to the whole striker - and are about as hard as you can get them.

I also take every finished striker over and wire brush it to clean it up. And then I use the bench grinder to clean the striking surface. I grind all the forge scale off down to bare metal. But I never clamp a finished striker in a vice. No matter how flat/true you have them, that vice will apply pressure differently to them and likely crack/break them. Hardened tool steel just doesn't like a vice - unless it's got a lot of mass to it like a punch/chisel.

This is what works for me. Other people's experiences might be different.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. And some days the ... fire gods ... just manure all over you until you quit for the day and go have a beverage or three!

 

[fatboy]

Hey Mike got your PM and thanks for your input didnt me to jack your posting but had some ?'s :hatsoff:

 

[ameling]

Over the years, I've had a number of people question my practice of freely sharing information about making strikers. They questioned why I ... give away ... all my trade secrets. Well, I give them my standard response:

There are no secrets, just tips you haven't heard yet. And most importantly, I KNOW the work involved. If anybody wants to do that work, they are more than welcome to do so. I'm not worried about any "competition".

So, when people ask, I share. Yes, there are some people who ... jelously guard ... their "trade secrets". That's OK. That's their decision.

But only once did I have a person ... confront me ... about some iron work. He ... declared ... that I was using HIS PATENTED METHOD of making something - and without his permission. And he DEMANDED that I cease and desist immediately, and the HE was going to confiscate everything I already had made with HIS method because I did not have his permission to use it. First I informed him he cannot "patent" a method that had been in use for several hundred years, no matter what "paper" he might have bought. And then I "figuratively" kicked him out to the curb - without letting him steal any of my stuff. Never heard another peep from him or his lawyer. So much for secret methods.

So if anybody wants to do the work involve with making flint strikers, be my guest. I ain't worried.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. Now to see if I can find any info on original Japanese flint strikers. So far I have only seen one original, but I haven't really researched it yet.

 

[StevePrice2]

Only thing I can say is your knowlege of strikers in impressing me and your skill with a hammer shows! I've banged on steel a few times and know it's like anything - practice, practice, practice.

I have seen one Japanese striker and after I scroll through the gray matter for a while it'll come to me. I might can even come up with a picture of it once I recall the source. :hmm: