Military Rifle what is it?

[Tracy]

Looked at a .58 military rifle today.On the lock behind the hammer it was stamped 1862 ahead of the hammer looked like a crown,possibly,with a U.S. above it.Appears to be in very good shape.Any idea what its worth?

 

[Tumblernotch]

Need more description. US Springfield pattern muskets were dated behind the hammer but didn't have a crown. It may be a badly worn Eagle you're seeing. It should also include where the gun was made, whether at a National Armory or by a contractor. Prices would vary according to condition and by who made it.

British Enfield pattern arms of this caliber (.577) should have the crown behind the hammer and if a date is present, it should be forward of the hammer. Most are stamped "Tower" forward of the hammer, some "London Armoury", "Barnett", etc.

 

[Tracy]

Didnt have my glasses could have been an eagle.Looking at it again tomorrow.Iwill bring my glasses and a bore light.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Also look closely for a name on the lock. With an 1862 date, Springfield was the only National Armory, however there were many contractors making that pattern arm. And look on the barrel at the breech on the opposite side from the hammer for an Eagle Head and the letters V and P. These may have been obliterated by cap flash and corrosion. This sounds like a M1861.

 

[Tracy]

The hammer and trigger seem to work fine.The stock may have been refinished a long time ago.The barrel is brown but smooth on the outside.The nipple looks a little the worse for wear but might work.If it is a 1861 got any ball park figures on a starting price?

 

[Tumblernotch]

I haven't been keeping up with prices lately, but from what I've seen recently an M1861 in reasonably good shape will go for $1,000 easy. Like I said, it all depends on overall condition, condition of the bore (some collectors don't figure that in, but if you want to shoot it, you will), the maker, whether it is a "parts gun". If you're looking at buying it for a shooter, you have all these things plus whether it is safe to shoot. I'm no collector...sigh, so what I would do is check around the websites where they sell this type of gun and find one that compares with what you're looking at. Also, any gun stores in your area or acquaintances who do. There are guys on here that can probably help you better with pricing. About all I can do is help with identifying. I can say that I've seen muskets such as this range in price from $800 to $4,000 depending on condition and where it was made. With more detail in your description, such as the name of the maker, I can at least give you the figures of how many were made and a little bit of history about it's manufacture.

 

[Tracy]

Thanks for all your help,I really appreciate it.Iwill let you know what I find out.

 

[Tracy]

It says Philadelphia under the lock,and has a Y on the breech opposite the lock if that helps.

 

[Tumblernotch]

When you say it is marked "Philadelphia" under the lock, do you mean on the inside? Or is it stamped under an eagle on the outside?

Another question, how is the hammer shaped? Is it kinda C-shaped or kinda S-shaped?

The "Y" mark is kind of throwing me a little. It may be a partial marking.

If this weapon is of the Springfield pattern, there is a possibility that it is one of a few actually assembled and sold to the government by John Rice of Philadelphia. He ran into a lot of problems trying not to default on a contract for 36,000 M1861 Springfields and it's not really known how many he may have actually assembled using parts from several contractors. It's too long a story to get into here.

There is also a possibility that it is one of the first muskets made by Alfred Jenks & Son also of Philadelphia. Their Bridesburg Machine Works near Philly produced over 98,000 M1861 Springfields during the War. These were marked "Bridesburg", but it is believed that some of their early production may have been marked "Philadelphia".

There's no proof that either of these makers built the gun you speak of, but one or the other is the likeliest to be the maker. That is, if this is a M1861 Springfield pattern musket. If you can give details about the shape of lock, hammer, buttplate, barrel bands, barrel length and sights, it will make it easier. There were other makers in Philadelphia who made rifles for the militia that are somewhat similiar, but not of the US standard pattern.

 

[Tracy]

Check your PM

 

[Tumblernotch]

Jess, check your PM too.
:grin:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Jess, I'm having a lot of trouble accessing this site for some reason and it won't allow me to post a PM, so I hope you're still monitoring this thread.

Congratulations on your purchase! As for cleaning, I'm no expert in restoring and cleaning, but if you want to keep it as it is I would just lightly clean it with a little soapy water and dry thoroughly. Lightly oil it with whatever oil you normally use to preserve your other guns. As for the paint or stain on the barrel, I'm not sure what would be the best. A paint remover may work, taking the barrel out of the stock of course. But remember, if you remove the paint and the barrel is bright, it's not going to match the lock and hardware on the gun. You may want to just keep it as it is.

If you plan on using it as a shooter, in the course of cleaning you will probably remove some paint plus some of the patina on the other parts. If that happens, you might as well remove the paint/stain from the barrel. If you plan to keep it as a wallhanger or possibly re-sell to a collector, I would leave it alone, as that will definitely diminish the value.
:thumbsup: