Loads going soft.

[Rat]

I shot my 1860 today, at the side of an old boat, which did not penetrate, which surprised me. I could tell however, that the loads were "soft". The pistola has been loaded for a long time. Sure got a nice group though. This pistol is a shooter.

A year or so ago, I shot this pistol at a water-heater, not just the tank, but the whole heater in it's sheet metal jacket. Pistol had been loaded a long time, and the balls did not penetrate the sheet metal. So I went in the house, loaded up some fresh charges, and they zipped right through the sheet metal and dented the tank...which I would expect.

Anyhow, came to realize that it's the wonder-wads, impregnated with lube, that's killing off some of the powder. I know it is not "absorbing moisture from the air".

The other day I dipped some wonder wads for a rifle in hot melted bee's wax, and found it made a really nice wax "cookie" without the work or hassle of making them other ways. Just dip, and put on wax paper. So, after I clean the old girl, I'm going to reload it with these wad/wax cookies...or perhaps I'll call them "biscuits". I'll let her sit for six months and see what happens. In one of the pics below, is a recovered ball. You can see the wad still stuck to it. But what impresses me is the amount of expansion of pure lead balls. That's why I'd never want to get hit with one. Anyhow, that is what I did today, shot up an old boat.

I bought this pistol in the mid-1970s. Have no idea of the make, but she's accurate.

 

[bigted]

I really like that front sight. Kinda reminiscent of the front sight on a Remington new model army.

Pretty sure if i were going to plan on leaving my percussion revolver loaded ... i would not add the wad ... merely load her up "dry" as it were. Might give that a try to have a full power loaded revolver at the ready.

 

[Rat]

Genuine brazing rod. Was aiming right on the blue sticker at about 20 yards. Standing, two hand hold. My loads never "go soft" right away, more like a matter of months. Over six months since I last loaded the 1860. I think the waxed biscuits are going to work, as far as long term loaded goes.

 

[bigted]

Rat, how much lube effect will pure bee wax have

By the by, good idea on the brazing rod ... that sounds great

 

[rodwha]

I’ve wondered about long term as well. My 1858 was loaded for over 4 years with the hated Triple7 and my conicals lubed with Gatofeo’s #1. Sure couldn’t tell a difference. But it made me wonder if a cardboard overpowder card was a worthwhile step. Certainly can’t hurt...

 

[azmntman]

I had loaded up a Pietta 12" barrel 1858 with 30 gr T7, ball and capped off with bore butter and left it loaded in the gun cabinet for over a year (could have been 2+?). When I shot it it went phhhssssst and all 6 chambers followed similarly. I would bet the max distance a ball went was 50'. I agree with above if yer loading for long term make sure its clean and DRY and load powder dry felt wad and ball ONLY. Keep all lube and oil and goop in its container.

 

[Nativearizonan]

I would imagine the effect any lube, and especially wax, would have on the charge would be related to the temperature. The warmer the temperature, the more viscous the lube becomes (including wax, which definitely melts in summer heat).

 

[Kansas Jake]

Also, if the nipples are not covered, they may allow moisture into the powder over time with changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure even when stored inside.

 

[Rat]

Rat, how much lube effect will pure bee wax have

By the by, good idea on the brazing rod ... that sounds great

Don't what lube effect the pure bee's wax will have. I'm planning to experiment with that (Bees waxed felt wads) in a couple rifles. The Wonder Wads do seem to have a lot of lube in them, I think I have uderestimated that. I think that bee's wax, with no lube in it won't tend to melt in the chamber....maybe in a worst case scenario like if the pistol was sitting in the hot sun on a hot day, or left in a very hot car, but my pistols don't experience that, don't live in a hot climate, and really don't use my black powder pistols during the summer.

Over powder cardboard wad probably is a good idea. I'll load up the pistol today, see if there's any difficulty getting the wax biscuits into the cylinder.

 

[Rat]

Okay, just loaded her up...but there's no doubt that there's just too much lube in the wonder wads, for being loaded long term. The good news is that the loads don't go completely flat, and squib, or fizz like fake powder might, just a noticeable reduction in power.

Now on the wax biscuit, I did fear, that not being very pliable they might be a little difficult to press into the cylinder, but not so. Pressed right in, little bit of force, not bad, put the ball on top and rammed it all down like normal. The biscuit going down did seem to leave a good smearing of wax on the chamber walls, which if figure seals the ball up better.

If interested in trying it, I just heated up a small glass cup in the micro-wave, with just a small amount of wax, got the wax like REALLY hot, then tossed the wonder wads in one at a time, fish them out with a toothpick, and put them on a sheet of wax paper. When you first drop it in, you get these tiny bubbles coming out of the wad, which looks like they are boiling or something. Nope just air getting the heck out of the wad.

Just to verify I'll leave her loaded for a long time, but that doesn't mean I can't put on fresh caps and take her for a walk in the mean-time. In fact, going deer hunting tomorrow, and I think I'll take the 1860 along.

 

[drobs]

Wads sticking to your balls will throw off your accuracy.

I made up a batch of homemade lube this time last year. Tried a variant of the Gatafeo mix. Used Crisco, Beeswax, and Paraffin Wax. My batch was too sticky. I was finding homemade felt wads under my backyard 25yd gong and my groups were all over the paper target.

I believe the ideal is that lubed wads will fall off just past the muzzle or a few short feet form the muzzle.

My best accuracy has been with the following: Powder, Dry Wonder wad, Bore Butter, and Ball. But this is for instant use not long term storage. If I was going to load for long term "non-use," I'd leave the lube out of the chamber altogether.

I like shooting my C&B revolvers too much to leave them loader for long.

 

[Ketchakah]

I hate when that happens....

 

[Rat]

Okay...can the wise lips Shawnee!!! Now I even hate to say it, but, although I would agree that wads sticking to one's balls should have a negative effect, you can see in the pic that she grouped extremely well. ??? That is a mystery. I guess that most people wouldn't leave a revolver loaded for six months or so. I don't shoot them that much, so they might be loaded from spring or summer until hunting season. That's when I shoot them in order to put in fresh loads, and have noticed the reduction in power. But it only recently dawned on me the reason why. Anyhow, I would be surprised if the wax wads stick...to...the balls, and that's got to be a good thing. I have noticed that lead which is in long term contact with wonder wads form a white, sticky substance on them. If you store lead balls in the same container with wonder wads you'll see that happen. That smashed ball in the pic, the was is like fused to the ball. I still like wonder wads, but for long term loading I think I'm going to move to the wax biscuit. !! Soon as hunting season ends, I'll do some experimenting with the wax wads in my rifles.

 

[drobs]

Okay...can the wise lips Shawnee!!! Now I even hate to say it, but, although I would agree that wads sticking to one's balls should have a negative effect, you can see in the pic that she grouped extremely well. ??? That is a mystery. I guess that most people wouldn't leave a revolver loaded for six months or so. I don't shoot them that much, so they might be loaded from spring or summer until hunting season. That's when I shoot them in order to put in fresh loads, and have noticed the reduction in power. But it only recently dawned on me the reason why. Anyhow, I would be surprised if the wax wads stick...to...the balls, and that's got to be a good thing. I have noticed that lead which is in long term contact with wonder wads form a white, sticky substance on them. If you store lead balls in the same container with wonder wads you'll see that happen. That smashed ball in the pic, the was is like fused to the ball. I still like wonder wads, but for long term loading I think I'm going to move to the wax biscuit. !! Soon as hunting season ends, I'll do some experimenting with the wax wads in my rifles.

What range for shooting the boat and what powder were you using?

In regards to wads sticking to balls - put the gun on paper. My results were pretty poor. YMMV.

 

[Rat]

Actually, just realized my Remington Navy is un-loaded, so I'll do some shooting with that soon, using the wax biscuits.

That was 30 grains of 2f Swiss, at 20 yards. Standing, two hand hold.

I think I have determined (no duh) that wonder wads aren't great for long term loading. Besides the lube contaminating some of the powder, the wad seems to glue it's self to the ball over time. But we are talking four-six month periods of time. Otherwise they have worked great for me. I'm pretty confident the wax biscuits will work great, although perhaps less of a lube factor. ?? We'll see. Should be some melting of the wax with the fire behind it, and the pure, solid wax should not contaminate the powder charge. ? Again, we shall see. Or has anyone else done this...with pure wax, no lube mixed in?

 

[Rat]

Little bit of an update. I made some wax biscuits for the .36, and thought I'd load up some slugs to see if it improved accuracy at all. Usually load the Remington Navy with ball, which is super-ultra accurate, the slugs being a bit, or noticeably less accurate.

Right off the bat I learned the wax biscuit does not compress like the un-waxed wad, and almost got the first slug too high in the cylinder. !!! Shaved the nose off a bit, to fit. Then I reduced the charge just slightly (about three grains or so? not much) but a weird thing happened.

The seating depth was not uniform, or consistent. Some slugs seated high, some slugs seated low, so I stopped at slug number five, said this isn't acceptable, and went out back to unload the gun. A very casual emptying of the gun at a paper plate show not-bad accuracy. At ten yards, standing two hand hold, so not really any info there.

The wax wads certainly separated from the bullets, and a couple smacked the paper plate with authority. Examination of one of the wads I found showed that most of the wax was gone, the biscuit was recognizeable as a felt wad. So the wax is melting and acting as a lube, I'd say.

Most interesting to me was that the barrel looked extremely clean, very little fouling. For sure it was only five shots, and with Swiss powder, but still. It only required two patches with "Blue Thunder" solvent to completely clean the barrel.

Then, I cleaned and reloaded the pistol with ball, and the balls all loaded consistently, and at uniform depth. Also when I loaded up the 1860, with ball, same deal, no problem there. Wonder why the slugs don't??

As hunting season ended for me yesterday, as soon as possible I'll shoot the .36 more extensively with the wax biscuits. Just want to be sure I have a good target-type rest, and a measured 25 yards, etc., to get the best results/accurate results. Stay tuned!

 

[Grumpa]

If you are going for a day at the range, dry lubed wads over the powder charge are fine. Lube over the ball serves no purpose, and will leave the gun messy.

If you are loading the gun to leave it for a long period, either for defense or for hunting, it should be loaded clean and dry, powder and ball, with a drop of shellac or nail polish if you feel the need to seal the capped nipples from moisture. Under these circumstances, there is absolutely no reason to use lubes or wads at all.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[PluggedNickel]

From this day forward our people will know you as "Boat Killer!"

 

[azmntman]

If you are going for a day at the range, dry lubed wads over the powder charge are fine. Lube over the ball serves no purpose, and will leave the gun messy.

If you are loading the gun to leave it for a long period, either for defense or for hunting, it should be loaded clean and dry, powder and ball, with a drop of shellac or nail polish if you feel the need to seal the capped nipples from moisture. Under these circumstances, there is absolutely no reason to use lubes or wads at all.

Richard/Grumpa

Agree. You will likely be firing only 1-2 times in either scenario and in either scenario the gun firing as planned (full power) is as important as accuracy IMHO? In a self defense situation we will more than likely be in a "hysterical situation" and accuracy for all but the highly trained military of LE officer will suffer. Hunting we will be more under control and a tad bit of loss of any accuracy by omitting a wad or lube will be acceptable as we will be well within range.

 

[Rat]

From this day forward our people will know you as "Boat Killer!"

And the boat will be known as "Captain Red Legs Terral"!!!!!!!! Or "Abe". Or..."Leige".

Sincerely, Boat Killer.