Loading 5?or loading 6?

[Springypond]

I’m new to BP revolvers and would like to know.
I have two Piettas a 1858 and an 1860, both encourage only loading 5 chambers leaving the 6’th empty.
However both have a safe position between chambers, one a pin and one a notch, where the hammer is supposed to rest after loading.
It seems a little ambiguous at best.
Looking for the common thoughts on this.
Thanks
Brad

 

[hawkeye2]

I have never trusted the pin and notch system. Most of the repro revolvers I have don't engage the pin reliably. The Remingtons are iffy too unless you modify the nose of the hammer. I load and shoot 6 on the range but if I were to carry it would be 5 and the hammer down on an empty chamber. I have carried handguns hunting and I follow this procedure with all my revolvers (including my S&W model 57) regardless of any built in safety mechanisms. If I can't get the job done with 5 I need to call it a day and go back to the range for more practice.

 

[SDSmlf]

Have never been in a shootout where I needed that sixth shot. Some competitions, like SASS, will only allow five rounds, with hammer down on an empty nipple/chamber. Personally, when carrying a sixgun I have the hammer down on an empty chamber. At the the range while target shooting, usually load and shoot six.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have no issues loading 6 in my Pietta '58.
The safety notches hold the cylinder solidly in place and work perfectly.
I have heard that the early cylinders have an issue - but a few minutes of filework on the notches in the cylinder will fix that quickly.
I would not recommend filing on the hammer....
I do not have a revolver with the pins so I can't offer my experience with that model.

 

[SDSmlf]

As an FYI, like @hawkeye2, don’t trust the pins on the cylinders. I have some cylinders with broken/missing pins. No idea when or how they were damaged, but to me, not worth the risk.

 

[hawkeye2]

It is quite common to modify the Remington hammer nose and it doesn't affect anything except the engagement in the notch, google this:
How to Smith the Hammer Nose to Better Fit the Safety Notches on the Cylinder.

 

[Springypond]

Thank you all for the excellent advice based on experience. What you all expressed is also the way I feel.
I don’t plan to carry for hunting and will only be on a private range.
Thanks again!
Brad

 

[Griz44Mag]

It is quite common to modify the Remington hammer nose and it doesn't affect anything except the engagement in the notch, google this:
How to Smith the Hammer Nose to Better Fit the Safety Notches on the Cylinder.

For every yea there is another expert that has a different way - not saying one way or the other.
Here's another expert with a solution and method.
I personally would rather not modify the hammer. But what you do with yours is your choice.
My newer pietta has no issues with the factory notches or hammer width issues.

Mr. Thomas is a renowned expert on BP revolvers.

 

[B P Arn]

I load all the chambers always.

 

[Justin.44]

As Griz44Mag said, Blackie Thomas has an extensive playlist on cap and ball revolvers on youtube. Helped me a lot when starting out. Definitely check him out, also duelist1954 is great too.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

So long as the pin is secure and the cylinder won’t rotate, you can load and carry six in the Colt’s with pins.

Make sure the cylinder won’t turn with moderate side to side pressure (with the gun UNLOADED first) and if not, you’re good. Sometimes the pin can slip out and that’s not a safe thing. Also, carry in a secure holster with flap or hammer thong so the hammer can’t move is always a good choice with a percussion revolver, and a flap holster especially can help protect the charges from any kind of moistures or percipitants.

 

[Cosmo]

Are you planning on carrying your revolvers, match shooting or just plinking at the range?

I shoot my revolvers at the range exclusively. I never carry them, and never compete. I load all six chambers, and then discharge all six more or less immediately. For me, the "safety pin" is superfluous.

 

[B P Arn]

Cosmo, that picture of the grinning dog is hilarious!!!!!

 

[SDSmlf]

So long as the pin is secure and the cylinder won’t rotate, you can load and carry six in the Colt’s with pins.

Make sure the cylinder won’t turn with moderate side to side pressure (with the gun UNLOADED first) and if not, you’re good. Sometimes the pin can slip out and that’s not a safe thing. Also, carry in a secure holster with flap or hammer thong so the hammer can’t move is always a good choice with a percussion revolver, and a flap holster especially can help protect the charges from any kind of moistures or percipitants.

The .06” diameter pins stick up .030” to .035” on Piettas and Uberti revolvers I have and have had. They are made from very soft steel and easily damaged. Learned from someone else that they do not hold the cylinder in place when holstering and in-holstering in tight leather. When I shot SASS with cap and ball pistols the pins got damaged all the time. When I stopped shooting SASS (you think there is drama in muzzleloading....) I swapped out my damaged cylinders to someone who had plugged the opening in the hammers on his guns (so the hammers wouldn’t pull caps) as part of another trade, but you can still see the damage on pins of my ‘good’ cylinder photographs. After some investigation determined that damage to pins appeared to be from cylinder over travel. The slots in the cylinders became peened by the bolt and the bolt was not fully entering the slot in the cylinder, allowing over travel, at least from what we could tell. Found it happened after only shooting a few full cylinders and ultimately made a tool to clean up cylinder pockets or slots after every shoot. No way would I load 6 and trust those pins on the cylinder to hold it in place in a real shooting environment or competition. In the basement or at the range, maybe.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

"J.B. Books" answered this pretty well in the movie "The Shootist."

For a time I carried a North American Arms "mini revolver" in a pocket holster made by the same company. It's a single action revolver with the notches between the cylinders. However, the holster was made incorrectly and did not fit snugly unless the hammer was down over a chamber. I tried carrying it in that holster hammer into a notch but I found it rotated on its own, allowing the hammer to rest on the base of a .22 Magnum cartridge!

I ended up only carrying four rounds in the cylinder with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

Good luck getting this sorted out.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The .06” diameter pins stick up .030” to .035” on Piettas and Uberti revolvers I have and have had. They are made from very soft steel and easily damaged. Learned from someone else that they do not hold the cylinder in place when holstering and in-holstering in tight leather. When I shot SASS with cap and ball pistols the pins got damaged all the time. When I stopped shooting SASS (you think there is drama in muzzleloading....) I swapped out my damaged cylinders to someone who had plugged the opening in the hammers on his guns (so the hammers wouldn’t pull caps) as part of another trade, but you can still see the damage on pins of my ‘good’ cylinder photographs. After some investigation determined that damage to pins appeared to be from cylinder over travel. The slots in the cylinders became peened by the bolt and the bolt was not fully entering the slot in the cylinder, allowing over travel, at least from what we could tell. Found it happened after only shooting a few full cylinders and ultimately made a tool to clean up cylinder pockets or slots after every shoot. No way would I load 6 and trust those pins on the cylinder to hold it in place in a real shooting environment or competition. In the basement or at the range, maybe. View attachment 45113

How would overtravel cause the pins to become damaged? I’m just trying to understand?

 

[SDSmlf]

How would overtravel cause the pins to become damaged? I’m just trying to understand?

As cylinder ‘ over travels’ the pin is caught by the notch hammer, with the case hardened hammer damaging the pins on the cylinder. Put a few hundred or thousands of rounds through a cylinder and you will discover what I am talking about.

 

[hawkeye2]

If the timing is off (bolt is late) the cylinder can spin past its stop point and the hammer can fall on a pin flattening it.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Some competitions, like SASS, will only allow five rounds, with hammer down on an empty nipple/chamber.

Yes and I was told that for some reason, one of the 6 chambers is always a little "off". It will be the one that throws a slight "flier" from a bench rest. I had no idea if true, so I tried it out.

So I had a pair of Pietta ".44 Confederate Navy" revolvers...which are just brass framed copies of the 1851 Colt, but in .44. I also had an 1858 Remington (Armi San Marco) and a CVA .36 "sheriff's" revolver. So after testing, and the Navy revolvers I had extra cylinders. Sure enough..., the same chamber in each of the tested cylinders threw the ball just a tad outside the rest of the group. So if four of the holes in the target were touching, the fifth hole was just a bit away from the other four. SO..., I marked that chamber on all of the cylinders, and the Piettas (which were for SASS matches) I simply pulled the nipple out of that chamber. That way no accidental loading of one too many chambers, no doubt as to where to lower the hammer during a stage-of-fire, and the other five shots were the most accurate of the six.

No idea if the higher quality cap-n-ball revolvers do the same thing or if other models do the same thing.

LD

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

If the timing is off (bolt is late) the cylinder can spin past its stop point and the hammer can fall on a pin flattening it.

That’s a much better explanation. Thanks for helping me visualize that.