Leman Rifles by TVM?

[Alaskan Woodsman]

I am looking at the Leman rifle made by TVM. I can't find much about that rifle on their site. I'm thinking of ordering one with the plain maple stock, 14" LOP, cap lock, .54 caliber, 1:66 or greater twist; to shoot round ball for hunting and match shoots with the muzzleloader club and other bp shooting friends.

I'd like to hear from those that have a TVA Leman rifle.

Does it have a hooked breach? Does it clean easy like the TC or GPR? Is it half stock or full stock? Is it accurate? What do you like about it and not like about it? And is it a good value compared to like a Lyman GPR? Have you got any pictures you can attach to your post reply?

Thanks!

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Isn't there a picture of it on their website? I found one and it's a full stock.

As for the value, you're comparing a roughly $1200 semi-custom rifle to a mass-produced $500 foreign made rifle.

I'm sure the TVM Leman will be better in some respects, and will probably be more historically correct if that matters to you. But as far as accuracy and real-world performance goes... they're probably going to be really close. The Lyman GPR has an excellent reputation for the price and I sure like mine.

I say you should probably get both, or the kit form of each. If you are in this game for a while you'll quickly realize kits are incredibly popular and for good reason. Kits give you an amazing sense of pride and accomplishment, much more so than just taking the lazy way out and buying one pre-made.

Seriously consider a kit. Almost everyone here builds kits and frankly it is an indispensable and huge part of this hobby. It is the only true way to experience our sport IMHO.

 

[hanshi]

TVM makes a good rifle. Muzzleloader Magazine writer, Mike Nesbitt, owns a couple - at least - of the TVM Lemans. I don't have one but do think they are really cool. Many years ago I saw a western movie where a couple of the main characters carried Lemans. I still remember that.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Thanks to Smokey and Hanshi for great comments and come backs. I was kind of fishing for more and better pictures of the TVM Leman rifles and comments from those that owned and shot them. I really would like rifle that conforms more to what was actually carried during the mountain man era. It seems I could buy a percussion and flint locked GPR for the price of the TVM and I have heard good things about them...

I was just wondering about the TVM's.

I've had my hands on a couple John Bergman Hawken rifles and boy are they nice!

Might have to come out of retirement to swing one though.
Power ball maybe!

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

I probably won't build a kit gun.

I do understand about how it would add to a depth of understanding with regards to the muzzleloader experience etc., however my focus within my interest in black powder shooting is roughly pre-1850 and mostly from the Lewis & Clark expedition through to the last Rocky Mtn mountain man rendezvous.

I'm more interested in making the clothing, shooting bags, fire kits and how to use them, horns, camping and authentic reenacting than I am in gun building. If I was responding to Col. Ashley's (?) ad in the newspaper for 100 daring young men, I'd buy and gun even if it was just a trade gun until I could afford a better one.

I've considered buying one in the white but theres no real cost break to that. And I've been looking for used rifles; Hawken style, with a round ball barrel rifled in .54 caliber around 32" in barrel length with a half stock, percussion (a flinter would be really cool except I hunt in rain forest country).

I might get a Green Mountain round ball barrel for my TC Hawken so I can really enjoy match shoots and get better at shooting. This year will be my 40th with the TC .50 caliber Hawken and I am having more fun with it now than ever before, shooting targets.

I intend to take some snowshoe hare again this winter with the TC. It has shot a fair amount of deer, bear and other delicious critters.

I'm working on better loads for the TC and dreaming of my next BP rifle. Hope to hear more about the TVM Leman rifles. Thanks!

 

[lou puleff]

There's a brand new tvm .58 cal on broker a steal at 1500 bucks

 

[Walkingeagle]

I was on Track of the Wolf website a couple days back. They have a used .54 IBS round ball bbl for the TC Hawken rifle (15/16”). I believe it was a cap but can’t remember.
Walk

 

[azmntman]

There's a brand new tvm .58 cal on broker a steal at 1500 bucks

Dont see it now

 

[54ball]

I have handled a few original Lemans. The ones I handled were fullstocks.
These are built like a standard pinned longrifle with no hooked breech.
Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading (Matt Avance) makes a fine modern Interpretation of a longrifle. His guns are great quality.

If you want a Leman the same or very close to the same as an original, you might want to consider a custom builder. Jack Brooks for one builds really nice Lemans.

For roughly the same money as a TVM....you can find an original if you look. Most originals tend to be from .30s to 40s in caliber and most are located East of the Mississippi.

Some of these are or could be made into shooters but that is a different topic.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Thanks everyone! Much appreciated.

 

[Zonie]

As you probably know, Henry Leman's factory was quite large and it produced a lot of guns in the 1830's-1860's.

They weren't real fancy but they weren't very expensive either.
To keep costs down, his rifles are usually stocked in plain maple and for a little extra money employes in his factory would paint fake stripes on them to make them look like the more expensive curly maple.
(This seems to have been done with special paint brushes with 7 narrow tufts of bristles as the pattern tends to repeat itself.)

I tend to think about Leman like I do with Mossberg. Not the best but a reliable, inexpensive rifle.

One doesn't read stories about Leman's used by mountain men but I'm willing to bet that more than a few of his rifles found their way across the planes and up into beaver country.

As for lock styles, there is no question Leman made his guns in both flintlock and percussion.

This gives the buyer the ability of carrying a simple, full stock flintlock that would be correct for the mountain man time period.

As for caliber, remember, the large bore guns have wide heavy barrels.
Weight wasn't a problem for a mountain man because he usually rode his horse and the horse had to carry the weight.

A modern man without a horse might not like the extra weight so I think I would suggest using a .54 caliber as a maximum size.

 

[excess650]

I was doing a little reading Leman rifles. It appears he had contracts for trade guns into the 1860s, and they were produced rifled, smooth, percussion and flint as required. Barrels seemed to be quite commonly 1-1/6" ATF, and lengths of 30" to 42" or so.

Henry apprenticed with Melchoir Fordney (1820s)before working with Tryon in Philadelphia and then opening his own shop in his father's brewery in Lancaster in the early 1830s. Fordney was still building flintlocks until his murder in 1846, so flintlocks were still in demand longer than many folks think.

Hawken rifles were a paltry few as compare to the many thousands of Leman/Conestoga Gunworks guns, and yes, those Lemans did go west. Those "contract guns" were often for the Indian trade. Folks traveling west could take their locally made guns rather than waiting until they got to Saint Louis to buy a Hawken.

 

[lou puleff]

It was just sold that's why it's too bad a beautiful rifle at a great price I almost bought it !

 

[BigAl52]

You wont find a much better guy to deal with than John Bergmann.

 

[rusty]

from what I have read Leman did not build trade rifles until the mid-1830's Henry made many more trade rifles than Leman, in fact, the seemed to be the most prominent.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Al, I've heard that about John Bergman and have emailed him and messaged with John.

His rifles are beautiful in a simple way if you want simple and would be as fancy as you'd like. Never having had the proverbial silver spoon, I'd be like that if living back in the Mtn Man Era.

A well made but simple non-fancy rifle would be my choice then as it is today.

 

[VJM]

That rifle is off of gunbroker but still in the classifieds here on this forum.

 

[VJM]

That rifle is off of gunbroker but still in the classifieds here on this forum.

Edit....never mind it's gone. Nice rifle.

 

[scott taylor]

I bought one from Track a few months ago advertised as a Lancaster type rifle. Built by Avance with a 38" swamped barrel, .50 cal. only weighs 7 1/2 lbs or so. Siler Moutain lock, all iron furniture.
Looks good but have not shot it yet.

 

[nuttbush]

Mr. John Bergmann of TN. built a TOTW Jim Bridger Hawken kit for me. He did a beautiful job. I would let him build another rifle for me without any reservations at all. I have never met the man, but in all our phone calls and messages he was very gracious and kind. I want a Leman and he will be the one I use. Best of luck.