Lee REAL & Shallow Grooves

[azmntman]

Excellent test, Thank you :thumbsup:

 

[rodwha]

Very interesting. I was told and figured the REAL would stay put. I wonder if this is due to the driving band lengths.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[rodwha]

How deep is the engraving on the Hornady compared to the REAL? And how much effort is needed to seat it in comparison?

 

[dsayer]

How deep is the engraving on the Hornady compared to the REAL? And how much effort is needed to seat it in comparison?

I would say the depth of engraving is pretty similar (at least on the top band of the REALs) but with the GP there is more total surface area that is engraved. You can kind of see this in this in the photo. With the REALs, it's just sharp points of the bands that are engraved vs. you can see the marks all the way down the GP.

To me, it felt like the GP actually took LESS effort to load. Especially getting started. It takes a pretty good push on my short starter to get past the last band on the REALs.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

That really is interesting information.

I wonder what the results would be for persons shooting a Pedersoli Kodiak SxS rifle..., which having a 1:24 twist in .54 is probably well suited to a conical. I wonder if the conical bullet in the second barrel would jump off the powder a bit when the first barrel is fired? Perhaps the rifling depth is different to the point where a conical won't do that.

I wonder what would happen if you added a linen-paper patch to the REAL bullets in your rifle? I wonder if a "stiffer" lube, meaning more beeswax, would alter your results in your rifle?

Which conical shoots the best, btw, or are they all the same? I suppose you could get used to always dropping the ramrod down the barrel to check seating depth of the bullet, when you draw your rifle from your pack, but that would certainly be a nuisance.

LD

 

[dsayer]

That really is interesting information.

I wonder what the results would be for persons shooting a Pedersoli Kodiak SxS rifle..., which having a 1:24 twist in .54 is probably well suited to a conical. I wonder if the conical bullet in the second barrel would jump off the powder a bit when the first barrel is fired? Perhaps the rifling depth is different to the point where a conical won't do that.

I wonder what would happen if you added a linen-paper patch to the REAL bullets in your rifle? I wonder if a "stiffer" lube, meaning more beeswax, would alter your results in your rifle?

Which conical shoots the best, btw, or are they all the same? I suppose you could get used to always dropping the ramrod down the barrel to check seating depth of the bullet, when you draw your rifle from your pack, but that would certainly be a nuisance.

LD

Good questions and I don't have answers to all of them.

SxS rifles are illegal for hunting in Colorado so that's someone else's problem. :haha:

I've also thought about paper patching but have not tried it. Considering how well my rifle shoots PRBs, motivation for continuing to tinker with the REALs is waning. I may try to Lyman plains bullet (since it is more similar to the GP), but will wait until after elk season at this point.

I have tired SPG lube, which might hold a little better but accuracy was much worse with SPG vs. Alox lube with my limited testing.

My rifle likes the GP bullet pretty well. The REALs have tested my patience. I've worked up a few loads that looked pretty good at my indoor 25 yard range but couldn't get them to group worth a :cursing: at 50+ yards.

 

[BrownBear]

I've worked up a few loads that looked pretty good at my indoor 25 yard range but couldn't get them to group worth a :cursing: at 50+ yards.

Actually I've found that with lots of conicals. I'm supposing here, or perhaps showing the limits of my ballistician genes, but I've found enough evidence in shooting to convince me the breakdown in accuracy has much to do with velocity drop at longer ranges. As the wrong conical slows it seems to lose stability. I base that on being able to improve the situation with increases in muzzle velocity.

And of course, when you try to "reach out" with the wrong conical using larger and larger powder charges you can rattle loose a filling or two. I'm way out of line with this account, but in my brief foray into unmentionables I worked with a lightweight 54 caliber, which I scoped to really test its long range accuracy potential. But with heaviest bullets I had to get up into stratospheric powder charges. Showing I'm not too smart, I scoped myself three times in a row before admitting defeat. Never in my life so happy to give away a gun to a friend, and he questioned my "friendship" after his own tests! :rotf:

 

[dsayer]

Did some additional testing on REALs today in my garage to see how well they would stay on the powder charge if turned upside down and given a few good shakes. I carry my rifle muzzle down in my hunting pack's built in scabbard so my hands are free in tough terrain. The tests don't fully recapitulate true field conditions but here is the test and the results.

Test:
4 different conicals (Hornady GP [control], REAL wrapped in Teflon tape, REAL lubed with Alox, REAL cast from hard lead and lubed with Alox) loaded into an unfouled barrel with no powder or wad. Turned upside down and given 10 vigorous downward shakes to simulate the jarring from hiking.

Results:
The Hornady GP was the only conical that did not travel towards the muzzle after the 10 shakes. Same results in both my Cabela's rifles (Hawken and Sporterized Hawken).

Here's a picture to show how each conical engaged the rifling in my Cabela's Hawken with 1:48 twist.



Maybe I can improve my casting technique to fix this, but for this coming season I'll be sticking with PRBs.

Thought this might be of interest to some on the board. Interested to hear any thoughts.

Repeated the experiment last night with a fouled barrel after I got home from the range. Followed my usual between-shot routine of a slightly wetted patch and a dry patch before testing. Everything stayed put with 10 shakes. Shook as many times as my arms would allow and the REALs didn't budge.

Bottom line based on the results, if I decide to use REALs I'll be running a fouling shot prior to loading.

 

[dsayer]

That's as good a theory as I've heard to describe this issue. I not sure I'm willing to suffer the heavy powder charge + heavy projectile combo though. Maybe I'll test it next week just for laughs.