leaving guns loaded

[roundball]

Was this caused by a loaded gun? NO! It was caused by a child with poor impulse control and absolutely no clue about what he was doing messing with something he should have left alone.

I appreciate the story, and am not taking issue with your opinion on it.
In my opinion I see if from the other side...that it's exactly the kind of example of why they shouldn't be left loaded, or at least easily accessible to passers-by, "impulsive" children, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world of 100% firearms savvy people all the time, and #$*&% like that happens when guns are lefted loaded...indeed, if it had not been loaded, the incident would not have happended...just thank God he wasn't "blowing down the barrel"...#$*&% happens.

And in particular, when a loaded gun is casually left standing behind a door like this one THAT WAS ALSO LEFT PRIMED / CAPPED / COCKED WITH NO WARNING OR SAFETY INVOLVED it simply begs for exactly the kind of thing to happen that did...#$*&% happens...all the time.

I don't disagree that if the kid had not fooled with it, he wouldn't have gotten himself[url] shot...but...in[/url] the real world, kids/people do things like that...lucky no one was killed.

:v

 

[PvtC]

I like Musketman's tag idea. Tagged with open frizzen (or perc cap removed) and in a locked cabinet or case during hunting season seems reasonable to me. The tag protects your heirs if the grim reaper
unexpectedly punches your ticket.

 

[tg]

" OK, lets say you die in your sleep. Now you have a loaded gun that some may not think is loaded. Sure, we preach treat every gun as though it is loaded, but a lot of people have not been around guns like us, and may just assume it is not loaded, that is when bad things can happen."

Well...I can just hope that if I die in my sleep one of my ex-wives trys to take all my guns.....

 

[chuck-ia]

or someone you really care for. flinch

 

[akapennypincher]

Black Powder is CORROSIVE, and in time will cause Damage to a Firearm. If you leave it Loaded.... :blah:

 

[Zonie]

Blackpowder will absorb moisture from the air.
This is why so many of the Flintlock shooters aren't real happy with FFFF powder in their pans. If I can believe them, it will actually get soupy if the humidity is high. (It's never high in Arizona).

The powder in the breech, if exposed to the air in the room will dampen.
This is IMO the reason so many old guns which were left loaded for years have such bad rust in the barrel where the powder was sitting.

If all communication with the room air is shut off by pluging the vent/nipple hole then, in effect the powder cannot absorb the moisture.

 

[Maestro]

" OK, lets say you die in your sleep. Now you have a loaded gun that some may not think is loaded. Sure, we preach treat every gun as though it is loaded, but a lot of people have not been around guns like us, and may just assume it is not loaded, that is when bad things can happen."

Well...I can just hope that if I die in my sleep one of my ex-wives trys to take all my guns.....

Well then, at least tag the guns with instructions how to blow down the barrel! :rotf:

 

[Hoyt]

Suppose a meteorite hits the earth and kills everyone but one kid and he can't read..or suppose you unloaded it and have your door kicked in with a home invasion.......I'm out the door going hog huntin and don't have to worry about loadin my gun in the dark...I loaded last night and hid it in a tree in the front yard incase one of the home invaders was a kid who couldn't read.

 

[davy]

I appreciate the story, and am not taking issue with your opinion on it.
In my opinion I see if from the other side...that it's exactly the kind of example of why they shouldn't be left loaded, or at least easily accessible to passers-by, "impulsive" children, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world of 100% firearms savvy people all the time, and #$*&% like that happens when guns are lefted loaded...indeed, if it had not been loaded, the incident would not have happended...just thank God he wasn't "blowing down the barrel"...#$*&% happens.

And in particular, when a loaded gun is casually left standing behind a door like this one THAT WAS ALSO LEFT PRIMED / CAPPED / COCKED WITH NO WARNING OR SAFETY INVOLVED it simply begs for exactly the kind of thing to happen that did...#$*&% happens...all the time.

I don't disagree that if the kid had not fooled with it, he wouldn't have gotten himself[url] shot...but...in[/url] the real world, kids/people do things like that...lucky no one was killed.

:v

A simple story ... years ago on a farm in rural Miss, my bro-in-law and a cousin who are both gun saavy ...found an old Win 97 shotgun left behind a door in the Civil War era farm house .. lord knows how many years before.

Captivated by a real find.. they took it outside to take a closer look at it - as no one knew how it came to be there or how long. While the cousin tryed to activate the pump mechanism (long unused) my Bro-in-law inadvertantly looked down the barrel of this shotgun, his cousin asked a question, and he turned to answer, and in the process moved his head around.

You guessed it ... a split second later the shotgun went off, missing the bro-in law for the most part other than singing his hair and deafening him for a few days! :cursing:

Yes it WAS loaded afterall ... somebody was watching over him that day! :redface: true story ... folks it do happen to the best of us!

I also saw a gentleman shoot thru the cab of a Ford pickup with a 30.06 by laying it loaded on the seat in the cab while taking a break from hunting. I owned that truck for 15 years .. a grim reminder believe me! Accidents do happen! :hmm:

I say unload 'em when not hunting with them. Period! :nono:


Davy

 

[Huntinfool]

Hey fellows I know I said BP was not hygroscopic. What I meant to say is that it's not enough to hurt leaving it loaded for awhile.

Here's what the BP notebook and Bob Spencer has to say about it.

"If you are not going to shoot again immediately, the pan must be cleaned of *every last bit* of the residue of the last shot, because the salts left from burning black powder are strongly hygroscopic, and will suck moisture out of the air like a sponge, on some days. Good quality unburned black powder is not hygroscopic enough to cause any problem, and it will stay useable in the pan for hours and hours on the most humid day. If you mechanically exclude liquid water by the steps mentioned, and start with dry prime and a clean pan, the gun will fire.

I know, I know, lot of people will disagree with the statement that black powder isn't hygroscopic. You are free to do so. I've hunted for years in extreme humidity, rain and snow, and have proven to my own satisfaction that the statement is correct. I have never once, not a single time, had a flintlock fail to fire because dry powder in a clean, dry pan had absorbed enough moisture from humid air to prevent ignition.

The only priming powder I've ever used is plain old FFFFg, most of it Hodgens or Goex.

In a discussion of this subject on the MLML, some good suggestions were made which need to be included here. Bill White pointed out that a rough, unpolished pan affords a multitude of tiny crevasses and cracks, each of which is a perfect hiding place for the salts left in the residue of the burned prime. Polishing the pan markedly reduced the problem he was having with soup in the pan after firing. He used crocus cloth on his finger, and a Dremel tool with rubber polishing tips to make the pan as shiny smooth as possible."

I've found that to be true also!

I've seen my pan turn to slushy soup in a few minutes on 100% humidity days. But not if the pan is clean as it can be. Usually after firing it a time or two.

Chuck :thumbsup:

 

[Runner]

I guess I should remove the cords from every electric item in the house when not in use. Guess all the power tools should be locked up. The knife drawer should be locked. The gas cut off to the stove with a combination lock to keep it from being turned back on by unauthorized people! Guess the car should be on a central control.
You can't make the world safe. If you did, I would be looking for a ride off world. When did being responsible for our own actions go away?

Dad was out hunting turkeys. He had a camo net gun sock around a model 1100 As the bird came in, he reached around and put a finger on each side of the safety button so he could ease it off silently. As he slid his hand into shooting position, a string hanging from the camo pulled the trigger. He lost the end of the toe next to the big one and ruined a new pair of boots. Guess all como coverings for guns should be outlawed now!
When does a person start being responsible for their own mistakes?

 

[roundball]

Polishing the pan markedly reduced the problem he was having with soup in the pan after firing. He used crocus cloth on his finger, and a Dremel tool with rubber polishing tips to make the pan as shiny smooth as possible."

I read this a few years ago and polished the pans of my Flintlocks with a Dremel tool, cotton polishing tip, and polishing compound...got them shiny smooth like a mirror.

But don't misunderstand, it's not a "silver bullet"...priming powder still has to leave it's residue, and on high humidity days I still get soup.

Maybe less than I would have otherwise...but it's enough that I still have to wipe the pan with a cloth after every shot...so, not sure I can quantify any real benefit I got out of doing it.

 

Runner....what a foreign concept.....personal responsibility. Do you believe it will catch on?

Vic

 

[mikee51848]

I empty (shoot) my gun every time I leave the woods, mainly for saftey's sake. I have left them loaded overnight though, at times, in the past. But you could leave a ML loaded indefinitly, I feel, so long as the vent or touch hole is sealed. I have a can of 4f, from 25 years ago that is just as good as the day I bought it. And the can sure hasn't corroded through. However, I do clean the barrel with a chemical solution when I get home. And I'd bet those rusted, loaded ML's are rusted because they weren't cleaned at all.

 

[Mulebrain]

Many forget to treat every gun as loaded! Many accidents would never happen if people would just follow the most simple and easily remembered rule of all!

I do keep a couple of handguns loaded, and I do like the warning tag idea.

 

[Maestro]

Dad was out hunting turkeys. He had a camo net gun sock around a model 1100 As the bird came in, he reached around and put a finger on each side of the safety button so he could ease it off silently. As he slid his hand into shooting position, a string hanging from the camo pulled the trigger. He lost the end of the toe next to the big one and ruined a new pair of boots. Guess all como coverings for guns should be outlawed now!
When does a person start being responsible for their own mistakes?

Sounds like a product liability lawsuit to me! (I'm being facetious!)

I've left my muzzleloader loaded during hunting season - I like the idea of the "Loaded" tag as well... another good tip I picked up on the Muzzleloading Forum! Thanks!

 

[paulvallandigham]

A couple of observations: I have had my prime puddle out once when I was hunting wild board in East Tennessee on Labor Day Weekend. It was raining on and off, and the humidity and temperature were way up. I had the action of my gun under my poncho, but when I checked my prime 20 minutes later, it was liquid, and ran out when I tipped my gun towards the pan. I used some paper towels I had brought along in a pocket for cleaning my glasses to dry the pan, lock, and barrel. Then I stuck a toothpick in the touch hole, and resigned myself to priming if and when I either sighted a hog, or hear one coming.

I started keeping loaded guns in my home after receiving several threats from people who had the criminal records to back up their lack of judgment. My wife and I both kept guns loaded around the house where we could get to them, and told all our friends that guns in our house were to be considered loaded and not to be touched. We had no problems. I still keep several loaded guns out of habit, but also because an unloaded gun is merely a clumbsy paperweight. My BP guns are emptied each day, and cleaned. While I have kept a loaded shotgun in the house for a couple of nights, long ago, I generally do not keep long guns loaded. Any distance you can get to in my home is short enough that you are a dead man if I have one of my handguns. I teach self defense, and like to teach my students how to use powerful flashlites to both identify their targets and what is beyond them, as well as to blind their assailant temporarily. With the flashlights made today, you can often terminate an ugly situation just by putting a lot of light on it. But, as nice an idea as that is, and it does work sometimes, to be sure, you do alert your assailant to your presense, and you had better be looking down the barrel of a loaded gun when you click on that light.YOu may not get a second chance.

 

[oomcurt]

Just adding this on at the end..not replying to any post specifically. One thing to keep in mind...about loaded or unloaded guns.... from what I have heard, and I see no reason to doubt it, say you are cleaning a gun, it falls, and breaks your toe in the process...believe it or not the doc or hospital records that as a gun related accident. Stupid? Yup. But, in this day and age of "protecting people from themselves"...something to think about, imo.

 

[chuck-ia]

I guess I should have been more specific, leaving muzzleloaders or black powder revolvers loaded. I can understand leaving modern guns loaded, for home protection, as long as care is taken. but leaving a muzzleloader loaded, or black powder revolver loaded long after hunting season is just plain, to put it nice, not very smart. It is easy to see if a modern gun is loaded or not, not so with a black powder gun. I would not be so concerned about the charge doing harm to the barrel. I would be more concerned about someone handling the gun, (if for some reason you aren't aronnd).flinch

 

[oomcurt]

??? Not to sure I follow you on this. I was getting at the idea today seems to be that whatever it takes to make gun ownership wrong is being used by antis. Now as to my personal feelings on loaded guns in the house...seems to me to depend on the specific household. As of now...the kids have all grown up and moved on..but even when they were at home..they knew better than to mess with my guns..or any other of my things. That leaves my wife..she understands guns and is not at all a bad shot in her own right even though it has been years since she last shot one. That leaves this "someone" who is not a member of my household....well, if it is a intruder, kid or otherwise..I hope he does shoot himself...one less scumbag to worry about, imo.