Leather lost it's strength??

[smo]

Gus great info, Thanks for posting…

What type of “maintenance “ oil do you use on your leather?

 

[Artificer]

Gus great info, Thanks for posting…

What type of “maintenance “ oil do you use on your leather?

Hi Smo,

This is going to date me. I began using Lexol products on the original leather portion of the family M1850 sword, bridles, saddles, holsters, etc. in the early to mid 1960's. They worked so well, I still use them, though there are other good products out there as well.

Gus

 

[smo]

Thanks for the reply

 

[Artificer]

Thanks for the reply

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Scota@4570]

It has come to my attention that vinegaroon has a reputation of destroying leather products, even high end items by a custom maker. It takes me several days of work to make a shooting bag. Why would I take a chance of sabotaging my project? I have ruined two bags and a holster by using the HC blackener. Being a slave to "HC" would be silly now that I know better. Regardless of whatever the "right way" is, I'd be a fool to use it again.

Yes, I am pretty upset. I used the HC method at the advice of people I trusted. I wasted my efforts and produced trash.

 

[hawkeye2]

I have never tried vinegeraoon nor had any desire to. There are high quality dyes available in so many colors that one could duplicate almost any historical finish and one can also mix dyes to come up with more shades. Fiebings alcohol based is my favorite.

 

[longcruise]

I have use vinegaroon on many leather projects without issue. Sometimes one side Sometimes both sides Sometimes so heavily applied that it soaked all the way through!

When I make it it is allowed to "work" for a very long time. Until the metal is completely dissolved. Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[BadDaditood]

I have use vinegaroon on many leather projects without issue. Sometimes one side Sometimes both sides Sometimes so heavily applied that it soaked all the way through!

When I make it it is allowed to "work" for a very long time. Until the metal is completely dissolved. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Adding iron until it won’t dissolve any more is part of it (it takes a long time) and it loses the vinegar smell. Some say at this point you don’t need to neutralize but still do.
Only issue I’ve had is the leather gets pretty stiff.
After 7 years my earliest projects are still together, even though I submerged them in the vinegaroon for 30 seconds.
I’ll try Artificer’s smooth side only, if I ever make another batch… Feibings is not cheap but SO much easier.

 

[Artificer]

As to whether or not to use baking soda on vinegaroon dyed leather goods, here is advice from departed member Chuck Barrows aka LaBonte.

"With respect but yes baking soda DOES have an impact - I've been using this mix for over 40 years and by using the baking soda and water after dipping in the vinegar black - you will not only help with the odor (although hanging it out in the air and sun or in front of a fan will do more/faster), but it will help it turn the leather blacker - I NEVER get slate blue, only a nice rich black when using the baking soda as a follow up.

Yes one does NEED to oil after and the oil will help darken but it should be BLACK before the oil.

Also for the smell as soon as the mix is ready (when no more iron can be dissolved) leave the lid off until the odor dissipates - acetic acid is highly volatile and any residual acid will gas off fairly quickly without a lot of loss of the mix via evaporation.

As to how-to use it - about two tablespoons to a quart of warm water and then just a quick dunk in the mix followed by a good rinse with clear water - do not leave too long in the baking soda/water mix as you can burn the leather. About 5-10 seconds or so max.

As for the rust reacting with the vinegar - sorry but that's a mis-conception - it's the iron being dissolved by the acetic acid that creates the mix (although I do prefer GOOD cider vinegar as well)- the resultant mix is known chemically as ferric acetate. One can also use ferric nitrate (comes in crystal form from The Science Company) as well - both are documented as being used for blacking leather in the 18th/19th Centuries and in none of the early (pre-1900) recipes for leather blacking have I found the use of rusty iron suggested or mentioned.

It's the tannins (ie tannic acid) in the leather reacting with the iron in solution that gives you the blacking. If need be a strong solution of black tea (el cheapo Lipton type) can be added either before or after the blacking to give a deeper black if need be."

I REALLY miss Chuck as he was so extremely helpful to everyone.

Gus

 

[Stophel]

This is why I will NEVER again attempt to color leather with vinegaroon. Too much blue mess, too much turning leather into tissue paper. No thank you.

I don't really like black leather anyway.

All my leather goes into the walnut hulls.

 

[LRB]

As to whether or not to use baking soda on vinegaroon dyed leather goods, here is advice from departed member Chuck Barrows aka LaBonte.

"With respect but yes baking soda DOES have an impact - I've been using this mix for over 40 years and by using the baking soda and water after dipping in the vinegar black - you will not only help with the odor (although hanging it out in the air and sun or in front of a fan will do more/faster), but it will help it turn the leather blacker - I NEVER get slate blue, only a nice rich black when using the baking soda as a follow up.

Yes one does NEED to oil after and the oil will help darken but it should be BLACK before the oil.

Also for the smell as soon as the mix is ready (when no more iron can be dissolved) leave the lid off until the odor dissipates - acetic acid is highly volatile and any residual acid will gas off fairly quickly without a lot of loss of the mix via evaporation.

As to how-to use it - about two tablespoons to a quart of warm water and then just a quick dunk in the mix followed by a good rinse with clear water - do not leave too long in the baking soda/water mix as you can burn the leather. About 5-10 seconds or so max.

As for the rust reacting with the vinegar - sorry but that's a mis-conception - it's the iron being dissolved by the acetic acid that creates the mix (although I do prefer GOOD cider vinegar as well)- the resultant mix is known chemically as ferric acetate. One can also use ferric nitrate (comes in crystal form from The Science Company) as well - both are documented as being used for blacking leather in the 18th/19th Centuries and in none of the early (pre-1900) recipes for leather blacking have I found the use of rusty iron suggested or mentioned.

It's the tannins (ie tannic acid) in the leather reacting with the iron in solution that gives you the blacking. If need be a strong solution of black tea (el cheapo Lipton type) can be added either before or after the blacking to give a deeper black if need be."

I REALLY miss Chuck as he was so extremely helpful to everyone.

Gus

Gus, years back, before you joined this forum, I asked Chuck about neutralizing, and he stated that neutralizing the vinegaroon was really unnecessary if you let it air out, and he did not bother with it. I followed what he said then. A few years later he contradicted himself in a post, and recommended neutralizing. I still never do. I let the leather air out 3/4 days, then oil it. I have a couple of sheaths that are around 10/12 years old, with no sign of distress yet. That may not be long enough to make a judgement, but I see it as at least promising. Oh yeah, I get a nice rich black without baking soda, and the oil gives it enhancement and some sheen.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, years back, before you joined this forum, I asked Chuck about neutralizing, and he stated that neutralizing the vinegaroon was really unnecessary if you let it air out, and he did not bother with it. I followed what he said then. A few years later he contradicted himself in a post, and recommended neutralizing. I still never do. I let the leather air out 3/4 days, then oil it. I have a couple of sheaths that are around 10/12 years old, with no sign of distress yet. That may not be long enough to make a judgement, but I see it as at least promising.

Wick,

Thank you for the reply and your own experience with it.

I wonder if Chuck changed his mind after he had seen damage from earlier projects? It really is a shame we can no longer ask him. I sure miss his posts.

But still, your experience of air drying does show it would have been useful for a long time in the period without neutralizing!

Gus

 

[LRB]

Yeah, be nice if he kept some notes, and they were found. What he based his idea of it was that vege tanned leather and vinegar have about the same level of PH, which they do at between 2 and 3, but would that not double the count in PH, or would the evaporation of the vinegar by airing out self correct the PH to the original level of the leather? I am no chemist, but think I remember he believed it would.